Bauncey Chillups 288 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 I sincerely hope the coaching staff put Gordon in a position to develop into a vicious pick and roll finisher in the vein of Amare Stoudemire and not let him jack threes this year. After seeing Nicholson inexplicably regress from his rookie to sophomore year I'm a bit concerned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 I sincerely hope the coaching staff put Gordon in a position to develop into a vicious pick and roll finisher in the vein of Amare Stoudemire and not let him jack threes this year. After seeing Nicholson inexplicably regress from his rookie to sophomore year I'm a bit concerned. That's a fair criticism. I think Gordon would benefit from adding a three to his game (forcing teams to honor the pick and pop) but his best asset is getting him moving where he can use his athleticism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Franchise408 116 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 .....who is is that you think has become a contender this way? You say that's the way it "usually" goes, so name, I don't know, 10 teams that became contenders through that exact path. I'll wait. Well, our own Orlando Magic for one, who only had one lottery pick (JJ Redick) to team with Dwight Howard, and started off in that 6th-8th range, getting bounced out by Detroit in the 1st round, before attracting more free agent talent (Rashard Lewis), and making deeper and deeper playoff runs until we were in the NBA Finals. LeBron's Cavs didn't constantly tank for lottery picks to put around LeBron, they gradually added pieces to put around him until they became the top team in the Eastern Conference. The pre-Big 3 Heat did the same thing, building pieces around Dwyane Wade until they bought in Shaq to be the final component to put them over the top. How about the Mavs, Suns, Bulls, Thunder, Rockets, Pacers. On the flip side, I can point to countless examples where constant accumulation of lottery picks did nothing... Warriors, Kings, Bucks, Raptors, 76ers, New Orleans, Timberwolves, just off the top of my head. The Spurs surely didn't tank - their franchise player was injured the year Duncan came out, and with the centerpiece of their franchise injured on the season, they sucked and earned the #1 pick to take Duncan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Secretly Space Jesus 670 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 stuff NO. You listed an alarmingly specific 12 step plan, as follows: No, it's usually "suck, lottery, suck less, lower lottery, low seed playoff, early tournament exit, higher seed playoff, deeper run, attractive situation for free agents, high seed playoff team, deep run, legit contender" What I want to know is, who is it that followed those exact 12 steps? Right off the bat, I'm looking at what appears to be at least a 7 year plan, so it should be pretty easy to point to examples. It also involves no setbacks, so that should make it even easier. And I certainly don't need you to just list every team to contend in the last 10 years. Even if I didn't know them all already, which I do, it's not like you and I have different versions of Google. Also: I'm not sure why you would start the Magic's rebuild towards a Finals team at the Redick pick, and not he picks of Howard and Nelson, when it actually started. Oh right, because it blows a huge hole in the argument you're very bizarrely using it as an example of, since the Magic were in the lottery for 3 years, not 1. Great, now I'm stuck thinking about Fran Vasquez again. I hope you die in a fire for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 Well, our own Orlando Magic for one, who only had one lottery pick (JJ Redick) to team with Dwight Howard, and started off in that 6th-8th range, getting bounced out by Detroit in the 1st round, before attracting more free agent talent (Rashard Lewis), and making deeper and deeper playoff runs until we were in the NBA Finals. LeBron's Cavs didn't constantly tank for lottery picks to put around LeBron, they gradually added pieces to put around him until they became the top team in the Eastern Conference. The pre-Big 3 Heat did the same thing, building pieces around Dwyane Wade until they bought in Shaq to be the final component to put them over the top. How about the Mavs, Suns, Bulls, Thunder, Rockets, Pacers. On the flip side, I can point to countless examples where constant accumulation of lottery picks did nothing... Warriors, Kings, Bucks, Raptors, 76ers, New Orleans, Timberwolves, just off the top of my head. The Spurs surely didn't tank - their franchise player was injured the year Duncan came out, and with the centerpiece of their franchise injured on the season, they sucked and earned the #1 pick to take Duncan. Every team you mentioned tanked at some point. The spurs didn't go into that season planning to tank but they did hold guys out in the second half of the year in order to suck more. Grant hill mentioned we did the same thing with him in 04. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Franchise408 116 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 NO. You listed an alarmingly specific 12 step plan, as follows: [/size][/color] What I want to know is, who is it that followed those exact 12 steps? Right off the bat, I'm looking at what appears to be at least a 7 year plan, so it should be pretty easy to point to examples. It also involves no setbacks, so that should make it even easier. And I certainly don't need you to just list every team to contend in the last 10 years. Even if I didn't know them all already, which I do, it's not like you and I have different versions of Google. Also: I'm not sure why you would start the Magic's rebuild towards a Finals team at the Redick pick, and not he picks of Howard and Nelson, when it actually started. Oh right, because it blows a huge hole in the argument you're very bizarrely using it as an example of, since the Magic were in the lottery for 3 years, not 1. Great, now I'm stuck thinking about Fran Vasquez again. I hope you die in a fire for that. Fran Vasquez is exactly the point. We got nothing for one of those lottery years. So it wasn't the "tanking" that got us good. It was gradually building towards being good, taking steps. 7 year plan? Where the hell did you get that from? We were in the Finals in Dwight's 5th year, and in the playoffs 2 years before that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KRISH10 103 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 Shoot, wish I could remember this exactly... but wasn't it something like Nick supposedly said it was 100% going to be a power forward (and then most likely Randle)? Just curious if anyone recalls exactly what was claimed... That was me who posted it. I asked Nick does he think we will take Exum at 4 if he is there and he told me no because he hasn't played against any great competition and he believes we are taking a PF at 4 and a PG at 12. Everyone here laughed and said Nick didn't know Sh*t guess they were wrong lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Secretly Space Jesus 670 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 Every team you mentioned tanked at some point. The spurs didn't go into that season planning to tank but they did hold guys out in the second half of the year in order to suck more. Yeah, that was the year the Spurs basically said to hell with it, and let an absolutely finished Dominique Wilkins take roughly 47 shots a game for the second half of the year. Arguing they weren't tanking after game 6 of that season just proves you either weren't watching basketball in '97, or you really don't remember it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Franchise408 116 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 Every team you mentioned tanked at some point. The spurs didn't go into that season planning to tank but they did hold guys out in the second half of the year in order to suck more. Grant hill mentioned we did the same thing with him in 04. Then we must have different definitions of tanking, because "sucking inherently because your franchise players have season long injuries" isn't my definition of "tanking". That's just sucking because your franchise players have season long injuries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NittanyBuc 757 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 Great, now I'm stuck thinking about Fran Vasquez again. I hope you die in a fire for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 Then we must have different definitions of tanking, because "sucking inherently because your franchise players have season long injuries" isn't my definition of "tanking". That's just sucking because your franchise players have season long injuries. Those season long injuries might only be 3 month long injuries. Thus, tanking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicFanInNevada 51 Report post Posted June 30, 2014 Franchise 408 are you from San Jose, CA? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
