Arroyo's performance against USA

[chosen12 75]

quote:

Originally posted by el mago:

i still dont understand how nash hurts his team.

i dont think that is proper way of saying it.

he is probably the #1 decision maker since MJ.

the man is a 2 time mvp, you must be seeing some thing different than all of the sportswriters.

 

i love my magic and all of the players on our roster but lets be realistic. jameer should not be mentioned in the breath as nash.

 

 

 

Yeah el mago, I think there maybe something lost in translation here, nothing stated here was directed at taking anything away from the brilliance that is Steve Nash at the pg position over the past few years. The point is Nash did not just get there overnight, it took almost 5 years for him to start to surface as a solid pg, and even after 10 years in the league his avg turnovers and his defense is worst then Jameers at the same point in their careers, and today as well. The bottom line, even the Great Steve Nash make mistakes and that does hurt his team, and defense is huge when it comes down to winning the championship. Again, not taking anything away, just pointing out the pimples!

[Rob 0]

quote:

Originally posted by chosen12:

quote:

Originally posted by el mago:

i still dont understand how nash hurts his team.

i dont think that is proper way of saying it.

he is probably the #1 decision maker since MJ.

the man is a 2 time mvp, you must be seeing some thing different than all of the sportswriters.

 

i love my magic and all of the players on our roster but lets be realistic. jameer should not be mentioned in the breath as nash.

 

 

 

Yeah el mago, I think there maybe something lost in translation here, nothing stated here was directed at taking anything away from the brilliance that is Steve Nash at the pg position over the past few years. The point is Nash did not just get there overnight, it took almost 5 years for him to start to surface as a solid pg, and even after 10 years in the league his avg turnovers and his defense is worst then Jameers at the same point in their careers, and today as well. The bottom line, even the Great Steve Nash make mistakes and that does hurt his team, and defense is huge when it comes down to winning the championship. Again, not taking anything away, just pointing out the pimples!

 

Yep Chosen, that about sums it up good. Just saying Nelson is not there yet or may never will be, but hes headed on the right track and with a new coach with a new system, the sky is the limit to where his game can go. Thats why i couldnt understand how alot of fans put the blame on Nelson when it all should go directly to Brian Hill. Thats why he was replaced.

[n_cruz69 0]

Jesus Christ just change the title of the thread!

[Rob 0]

quote:

Originally posted by n_cruz69:

Jesus Christ just change the title of the thread!

 

LOL We went off topic. It was about Arroyo but there was guy bashing Nelson so I had to state the facts. Sorry guys, I cant help it, im a fan.

[D-BoFats 5]

When I look at Nelson's potential, I completely ignore last season. Brian Hill's horrible offense is mostly to blame, and it doesn't help when you don't have any scorers to pass to either. The same can be said for Arroyo. They'll both be improved next season.

[NameLess Scrub 6]

Ok, just a couple of things.

 

1. Arroyo IS NOT supposed to do everything on the team.. see for example Larry Ayuso, who different times have scored more than Carlos. You guys seem to misinterpret Carlos' role in team PR. He's not supposed to be our only souce of life.

 

2. The only thing said regarding Jameer was that Carlos was the MAgic's best PG, which probably doesn't justify several pages of discussion and topic changing.

 

3. Did you know that Carlos dropped 30 points on Minny as a starter when they ended 1st in the NBA, against Sam Cassell, and Utah won? I doubt anybody would conclude Arroyo is special because of that.

 

Arroyo's performance against the USA was great IMO. I just hope he can take some of that to the NBA.

[Knappy 0]

Truth is that we shouldn't even have to mention Arroyo so much if it wasn't for the love he gets from his Puerto Rican Fans.

 

He just isn't that great - he is good as a backup, but no more than that. If he was as great as people say why hasn't anyone started knocking on our door to get him?

 

Why didn't Seattle basically take him for free in the Rashard trade - they didn't want him for free. If he was that great they would have taken Arroyo and Dooling with or without Garrity.

 

Jameer can play the game and it is sad that because Carlos has such a strong following that Jameer gets attacked by the Arroyo fanatics.

 

Carlos does anything right and he should start. Even Tyron Lue had a good game on ocassion. I am so tired of the Arroyo is God talk that I would love for him to be traded. He is an average backup point guard.

 

We don't have to say things about Dooling everytime we make a Jameer statement so as not to offend the Dooling fanatics. And Dooling outplayed Arroyo last year.

 

Yes, all PGs played worse under BHill - and I don't care if one PG is more of a pass first or a shoot first player.

 

Truth is in my opinion is that Jameer has much more upside. Carlos does well in International play - actually this last tournament he did average - or decent overall - overall I said - against Mexico he went 0-10 - overall. He is the go to guy for PR - he isn't a starter for the Magic - he is not the go to guy and I don't want him to be the go to guy if that means we loose by 30.

 

Anyway, I think I have let it be known before that Carlos is the most over rated player by his fans and he gets more discussion for a backup point guard than anyone should ever get. He plainly isn't that good. Has any other team called checking on his availability? They don't want his $4m contract - he's a backup.

 

I hope we can get a player in trade for him and then the nonsense will stop. Carlos will have a good game and we'll have to listen to the same old s*it once again. The Arroyo fanatics go silent when Jameer goes off and has a big game and they go silent when Arroyo has a terrible game. Overall he wasn't that great in the tournament considering the competition - he had a couple good games and most were below average. He had one very good shooting night around 60%, but every other game he shot under 50% and closer to 40% with at least one game worse than that.

 

You imagine if all the fans were going nuts over Bogans and demanding he start? Or going nuts over Dooling?

 

I tell you the Arroyo fans surely are loyal though - very easy to forgive his bad games - very good selective memories. They still see every game as the 2004 olympics game.

 

In this tournament Lebron shot about 90% from the field for the last 3 games or so - he can't shoot that well in the NBA. And he averaged around 20 points or so in about 15 minutes - he doesn't do that for stretches in the NBA.

 

So, to get overly excited about Arroyo - I just can't do it - not that he played bad against the U.S. team, because he was decent. After the games progress whether it be the U.S. or other team - when it is a blowout - defense tends to disappear a bit and stats should be elevated.

 

Thank goodness that Otis and Van Gundy run this team and not the Arroyo fanatics or else we would have to ride out Arroyo's slump for 20 games.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

I love comments like "Nash is so much better than Jameer, I can't beleive you would even compare the two".

 

Completely forgoeing (sp?) the fact that you can compare the play of one person to another witout intimating that they are similar in talent, the comment itself is comparitive in nature.

 

Besides... how else could you proclaim any one player better than another without some sort of comparison?

[Rob 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Knappy:

Truth is that we shouldn't even have to mention Arroyo so much if it wasn't for the love he gets from his Puerto Rican Fans.

 

He just isn't that great - he is good as a backup, but no more than that. If he was as great as people say why hasn't anyone started knocking on our door to get him?

 

Why didn't Seattle basically take him for free in the Rashard trade - they didn't want him for free. If he was that great they would have taken Arroyo and Dooling with or without Garrity.

 

Jameer can play the game and it is sad that because Carlos has such a strong following that Jameer gets attacked by the Arroyo fanatics.

 

Carlos does anything right and he should start. Even Tyron Lue had a good game on ocassion. I am so tired of the Arroyo is God talk that I would love for him to be traded. He is an average backup point guard.

 

We don't have to say things about Dooling everytime we make a Jameer statement so as not to offend the Dooling fanatics. And Dooling outplayed Arroyo last year.

 

Yes, all PGs played worse under BHill - and I don't care if one PG is more of a pass first or a shoot first player.

 

Truth is in my opinion is that Jameer has much more upside. Carlos does well in International play - actually this last tournament he did average - or decent overall - overall I said - against Mexico he went 0-10 - overall. He is the go to guy for PR - he isn't a starter for the Magic - he is not the go to guy and I don't want him to be the go to guy if that means we loose by 30.

 

Anyway, I think I have let it be known before that Carlos is the most over rated player by his fans and he gets more discussion for a backup point guard than anyone should ever get. He plainly isn't that good. Has any other team called checking on his availability? They don't want his $4m contract - he's a backup.

 

I hope we can get a player in trade for him and then the nonsense will stop. Carlos will have a good game and we'll have to listen to the same old s*it once again. The Arroyo fanatics go silent when Jameer goes off and has a big game and they go silent when Arroyo has a terrible game. Overall he wasn't that great in the tournament considering the competition - he had a couple good games and most were below average. He had one very good shooting night around 60%, but every other game he shot under 50% and closer to 40% with at least one game worse than that.

 

You imagine if all the fans were going nuts over Bogans and demanding he start? Or going nuts over Dooling?

 

I tell you the Arroyo fans surely are loyal though - very easy to forgive his bad games - very good selective memories. They still see every game as the 2004 olympics game.

 

In this tournament Lebron shot about 90% from the field for the last 3 games or so - he can't shoot that well in the NBA. And he averaged around 20 points or so in about 15 minutes - he doesn't do that for stretches in the NBA.

 

So, to get overly excited about Arroyo - I just can't do it - not that he played bad against the U.S. team, because he was decent. After the games progress whether it be the U.S. or other team - when it is a blowout - defense tends to disappear a bit and stats should be elevated.

 

Thank goodness that Otis and Van Gundy run this team and not the Arroyo fanatics or else we would have to ride out Arroyo's slump for 20 games.

 

Thank you. That is the best way to say that. Damm where you yesterday when i was getting attacked by Arroyo fanatics. Its crazy. Its like he cant do no wrong to them. That exactly what i said. If hes so good why havent he started an stayed on a team. I suggested that he play for the Cavs, he would have a better shot at starting there. Nelson has took over big games with his clutch shooting then Arroyo has. I also stated that since all you hear when Puerto Rico play, is Carlos Arroyo talk. If he so good he should dominate during this tourney. The competition is weak. So he should go off every game. I think Larry Ayuso better anyways. But you cant tell them nothing. Arroyo is GOD. Hes just a decent pg that could possibly start for a team like the Cavs. He would do well there and get more minutes. But i got to the point yesterday that i didnt care who started. But this is well said Knappy.

[NameLess Scrub 6]

Woow... you guys need some sleep.

 

To this point I think I can officialy say you are exaggerating.

 

I don't think this discussion has much of a point since there is exaggeration. I have always...always understand that SOME Arroyo/PR fans are annoying (and I mean it, I posted in the Pistons board), but you talk like we all come here with a new Carlos religion. Chill down!

 

Think about recent threads and opinions. Most of the posts from PR fans have been more objective than ever IMO. Look at my defense to Arroyo, how in this planet do you see an "Arroyo is god" conclusion there? Some of these posts are just stating that his performance in this tournament has been a good one. We just think his contribution has been great to the team and that he can contribute to the Magic. But yet maybe some Carlos fan comes and says something different, probably exagerates, and then you will come and say we all think Carlos should rule planet Earth and we all think Carlos is better than MJ, Bird and Magic combined, and all the discussion will be messed up.

 

No point in all this. You'll just find out that most of us think he's a good player that can contribute to an NBA team and possibly start. But some fan will say Carlos is better than Jameer and you'll have dreams about Carlos being the president of the USA.

 

Should I write a lot of posts stating Jameer is an undersized SG that more likely than not will be better as some scoring help from the bench? Because I think something similar to that, regardless if Arroyo is MJ ir not (he's not, to clarify)...

 

Anyway, I'm just one fan... maybe I'm wrong. But I am looking at this and my impression is that there is better Carlos Arroyo fans posts and worse comments about them. Maybe you need to chill down and forget some of the past posts.

[corporalrod 0]

Well he did have another great game today an gave PR the Bronze Medal in this tournament. I have to say that I have to agree with Freex and ad that if CA was more consistant he would be a starter in the NBA.

[ags_pr 0]

PR wins Bronze.

 

PR 111

Brazil 107

 

Ayuso - 39 pts 8-12 3pt

Arroyo - 30 pts 10 asts

 

Great game by our guards.