The Official VC to Orlando thread. ~merged~

[Scarred for Life 0]

I really hope that there has been an offer made, and that we do get Vince. When otis says we arent going to do anything i cant tell if he is going to do something and hes covering it up. or if hes actually is being honest. hopefully we land vince, and dont lose jj, but if thats hat we need to give up to get VC in a magic uni then so be it. id rather have an allstar than a career backup.

[Nyce_1 311]

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Charisma:

quote:

Originally posted by Nyce_1:

Glad to hear Vince and Dwight were the "newly weds" at the all-star events.

And here I thought that Barkley and Bavetta was the only couple enjoined this weekend.

 

LOL!!! If that's the case, gotta add Shaq and T-Mac to the list.

[chosen12 75]

quote:

Originally posted by ThefutureGM:

quote:

Originally posted by chosen12:

quote:

Originally posted by ThefutureGM:

Originally posted by chosen12:

 

Keeping GHILL makes total sense. Getting rid of HEDO and others will free up cap room in the future and with GHILL still being the vetern on the team Carter would not need to be the leader. The Magic do want to win now and with GHILL and CARTER on the court that is a real good team

 

I should have been specific, my aplogizes FutureGM, what I should have said was it did not make cap sense, with a GHill and VC @ $16mil and $15mil respectivley! If we are going for the finals this year and have the green light to exceed the cap, Is he bringing Collins or Moore with him?? Answer this one when you can!!

 

Not sure why you say the Cap space will not work. The Magic will go over if they can but they rather not. Hill makes more then Carter and if you trade Hedo, JJ, Pat, Dooling then Carter does not add any more to the cap this year. Grant signs for the min next year and you resign Darko and Carter then you still have about 4-5mil for another player and stay under the cap.

 

If the Magic add Carter then you will have a huge log jam at the SG spot so trading JJ gives him the opp to play for the Nets while they rebuild.

 

I think they do not need to offer JJ to get carter but they have because JJ wants to play many minutes and he will not get that option with the Magic. NJ has to save face or their fans will freak out.

 

Also, the Nets are talking with LA about JKID right now, if that deal goes down then the Carter to ORL will go down for sure. I am hearing that the Magic were told the Carter deal IS going to a happen but NJ wants to delay the announcement to try and get LA thinking the NETS may not blow the thing up. Lot

[Diplo 12]

not the espn insider article

 

The Nets will resume practice this evening, and when they reconvene -- barring travel difficulties -- Jason Kidd and Vince Carter will be among them.

 

"There's nothing that's even close to fruition, just the usual discussions," Nets president Rod Thorn said last night from Las Vegas. "I certainly don't anticipate anything happening in the next few days. So yes, it's almost assured that we'll have the same players at practice tomorrow."

Thorn said recently that with the trade deadline looming Thursday, he was still trying to gauge whether Carter has more definitive plans this summer, after divulging that his leading scorer "wants to become a free agent." In other words, he wanted to be clear whether Carter will opt out of his contract in June, which could have a profound effect on what action the team takes this week.

 

"You can't always get what you want. Let's say there were discussions, but there's nothing definitive at this time," Thorn said, clearly referring to Carter's agent Kurt Schoeppler.

 

"It doesn't affect what we do, not necessarily -- from my perspective," Thorn added. "I have to look at what my options are, whether they're good or not so good. And then we try to ascertain what options he has -- who's under the cap, who might have a need. But that doesn't mean we're going to trade Vince. We're only going to trade someone if it benefits us.

 

"He said he would play through the season and then decide what he's going to do. He may not opt out at all."

 

Thorn reiterated that he understands the repercussions of moving a player such as Kidd. But he would not concede that a trade for Kidd automatically means the team is tearing it up and starting again.

 

"It depends," Thorn said. "For theoretical purposes, if you trade a guy like that, it depends on what you get in return -- as to whether you will or won't be rebuilding, when it comes to a player of that magnitude."

 

Then can he foresee a deal involving Kidd that wouldn't be a teardown job?

 

"Uh, that's a difficult question," Thorn said. "I've talked to teams about a lot of players. I'd say I wouldn't use the term 'rebuilding.' I would say, 'restructuring.' But no, you're not going to get a player as good as that guy."

 

And yes, he added: He is also thinking that a deal involving Kidd would have serious psychological effects on everyone from the average fan to the average teammate.

 

"True," he said. "That's why I have to think very seriously about doing something like that."

 

http://www.nj.com/nets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/...346076630.xml&coll=1

[Ned Ryerson 94]

On the front page of ESPN.com there is a link to "V.C. Anyone?" I would love to know what it says, but its an insider article. Is anyone here an insider that can tell us what it says?

[TheJambo 10]

For the trade to work money-wise it would have to be:

 

Garrity

Hedo

Diener(or Reddick, I hope not)

Dooling

 

for Vince........

[Ned Ryerson 94]

Thanks!

[Nyce_1 311]

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

On the front page of ESPN.com there is a link to "V.C. Anyone?" I would love to know what it says, but its an insider article. Is anyone here an insider that can tell us what it says?

 

This is all it said...nothing we already don't know.

quote:

What Will He Do?

Feb 19 - The Nets seem on the verge of a breakup with Vince Carter eligible to be a free agent after this season. The Magic has been hiding in the weeds as a potential destination for Carter with Grant Hill's expiring big contract and several expendable young players such as Darko Milicic, J.J. Redick and perhaps Hedo Turkoglu.

"I've heard the talk," said Tracy McGrady, Carter's cousin who used to play for the Magic. "I don't know what he really wants to do. But he's built a house down there, he grew up 25-30 miles away from there."

 

Teaming Carter with Dwight Howard "would make them a great contender in the East for years to come," McGrady said. -- Chicago Tribune

 

 

"You can't always get what you want. Let's say there were discussions, but there's nothing definitive at this time," Rod Thorn said, clearly referring to Carter's agent Kurt Schoeppler.

"It doesn't affect what we do, not necessarily -- from my perspective," Thorn added. "I have to look at what my options are, whether they're good or not so good. And then we try to ascertain what options he has -- who's under the cap, who might have a need. But that doesn't mean we're going to trade Vince. We're only going to trade someone if it benefits us.

 

"He said he would play through the season and then decide what he's going to do. He may not opt out at all." -- Newark Star-Ledger

[ThefutureGM 0]

quote:

Originally posted by otownmagic333:

Orlando Trade Breakdown

Outgoing

Hedo Turkoglu

Keyon Dooling

J.J. Redick

 

Incoming

Vince Carter

Change in team outlook: -2.4 ppg, -0.5 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

 

Failed Scenario

Due to New Jersey and Orlando being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. New Jersey and Orlando had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did not happen here (only New Jersey met the condition). This trade does not satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

You have to add Pat G in there but I think the deal will involve a 3rd team!

[Nyce_1 311]

quote:

Originally posted by FeedDwight:

Update from MC...

 

Lying in the weeds, things are too quiet... that is in Vegas from Orlando...

 

Why are things so quiet out of Orlando. I confirmed with my long time friend who works with the Warriors, the Nets have had talks with the Magic (among other teams) about Vince. From the Wariors perspective, they would not touch Vince because they feel it would just become a bad rental of a player. Sure Vince has all world talents, but for a team to take a chance on Vince and not be able to resign him would destroy any chemistry on the team because all the players in the NBA already know what Vince wants to do. I was given a strong reason why almost all GM's, including Rod Thorn see the writing on the wall. There is not many players in the league that are as family oriented as Vince Carter. I was given the example of Carter going back to UNC for his graduation, despite the Raptors being on the verge of making it to the NBA finals. This is more of a window in to Vince Carter as a person rather than Vince Carter as a player. He puts his family priorities sometimes over that of his team or money. Right or wrong this is how Vince is made up as a person and you can not ask him to change. It is also what makes him great as a player because he plays on that raw emotion and can harness it to take over a game. Apparrently, the news the GM's were getting back from their own players is that Carter is completely focused on playing with Dwight Howard. They were seen countless times during the All-Star festivities together, and were described to me as both having "wide smiles and laughing at their own jokes like a newly wed couple." In otherwords, they stood out from the crown and people noticed. I have to put my own spin on this because as I watch the player introductions I saw some of this as well when Carter turned to Dwight as his name was announce giving him a big grin and then Carter himself started to do Dwight's snap dance to encourage some emotion from Dwight as well (could you see that on TV too?). The belief from the Warriors perspective is Rod Thorn should not have waited to make a trade this late. He should have attempted to trade Carter in the offseason when there was not this much attention to Carter and his desire to return to Florida. This is a misstake that may come back to haunt the Nets.

 

The Warriors were approached by the Nets to gauge interest in Kidd and also told Carter could be had cheaper. Without going in to my private discussions any further, I was told that there is not one team inthe league the Warriors feel will give up anything for Vince and that INCLUDES THE MAGIC. As the question was put to me, "Why should the Magic give anything up?" The only real reason to get Vince now versus the offseason is it clears up a lot of questions for the offseason and then the Magic can start to narrowly focus on what they want to accomplish in the offseason. You may think that the Magic want to aquire young talent if they can go ahead and pull off the Carter trade, but another league associate of mine's opinion was why would they want to add anymore young talent. In his opinion the Magic have more young talent than playing time will allow. I have to agree with him on this because if you bring in Carter, where will the minutes come from for Trevor and JJ. Assuming Grant Hill is resigned in the offseaon, Hedo would have to be traded or JJ & Trevor would be fighting over court time. Something Otis would dread because he feels those 2 players will greatly add dimensions to the Magic's game that few players around the league can. No need to restate the obvious, because we all know what these 2 players can do.

 

As I pined for more information out of my other league sources, I was finding the same resounding opinion out of them all. Also, one of them laughed at the news the Clippers were willing to part with Livingston in any trade for a player they would just be renting unless Marcus Williams was included in the deal as well. It came down to the same thing over and over again, Vince will not make a commitment to signing an extension or not opting out of his contract. There is just too much information out there in the press, from the players, from Vince and even from Rod Thorn's own quotes that Vince wants to be in Orlando. So much so that any GM willing to take Vince in a trade could be signing his own letter of resignation at the same time. It would be an act of professional suicide outside of winning it all this year. Now that the All-Star festivities are over, Thorn has to have come away from Vegas knowing he is in a position of dealing with one team, the Magic, and he will not get much either. It has to come down to Thorn's assessment of what he will risk by not trading Vince now.

 

By not trading Vince now, the Nets could make the playoffs as an 8th seed. Sound good? Not if you are going to rebuild. On the surface the decisions should be easy for the Nets. There 3rd and 4th best players are out and probably for the season in Jefferson and Nenad. They have a player they need to see what they have in Wright. This is the deepest draft for probably the last 10 years. They need to tank the rest of the year and lets Lawrence Frank develop the talent he has. Getting a pick outside the lotto could mean the difference in getting an impact player that you can use to intice Bosh, Wade or Bron in 3 years. Why then would Thorn wait to trade Vince or Kidd for that matter? Stubborness, fan backlash? Who knows other than Thorn. He is at the mercy of the GM's of the league because no team wants to make the Nets that healthy when they also see the writing on the wall that Lebron has a very good chance of signing with his FRIEND JAY-Z and the Brooklyn Nets in 3 years. The Brooklyn Nets will be the Sheik team of the league when they take over the New York Market. The league knows it and so do all the GM's. Don't think it was a coincedence that Bosh, Bron and Wade all signed the same deal last offseason. Jay-Z knows how to pick his friends and all the NBA players idolize Jay-Z and his arm candy Beyonce. Don't get fooled by anything else. Jay-z lives the life all of them want to be associated with.

 

Let's return to what I assume is going on amongst discussions with the Magic internally. I am sure there is the arguement between why make a trade now versus waiting to do it in the offseason. It is believed that Vince will sign a reasonable deal regardless if he is traded to the Magic or out right signs with them. It also must come down to what assets the Magic feel they can trade now and be comfortable with. No GM wants to make the other GM look bad because of repercussions in the future. All GM's barter hard and some do not play nice behind closed doors, but no GM wants to outright make a trade that makes another team looked completely fleeced. The problem is the Magic are not willing to part with any young players. I was told by other league sources the Nets got zero progress in with their desire to get the Magic to include any coveted young players. I would think it would be safe to assume those players would include Jameer, Trevor, Darko, Dwight (I know I did not really need to put his name down) & JJ. Also the Magic do not want Jason Collins either. He is not viewed as a big man that can help the Magic & is tremendously overpaid. Apparrently the Nets want Collins gone in a deal either with Kidd or Carter and that seems to be more of a sticking point than getng a team to include coveted young players.

 

What makes sense to me is the Nets take a package of players that would include Travis Diener and then ship Travis to the Suns for a 2007 draft pick and the Magic bite the bullet and take Collins. If I were the Nets I would do a deal if the Magic would take Collins and then give me a protected first orFran's rights along, Travis, Grant and Hedo. I have no sense or feel to what the Magic want to do other than hearing bits and pieces from my own sources around the league. But what I can do is give one piece of advice to Otis Smith that was said to me by a well respected scout who is also a friend of mine. I will try to paraphrase, "If the Magic want to develop Ariza in to that explosive go to guy that will take over a game, what better person to learn from than Vince Carter. Carter has never had a player around him since TMAC that has the untapped talent like Ariza. Young players need a Veteran they can relate to and share experiences with. Vince and Trevor would be a perfect match. Not many players can fly that high and experieces what those two can" After getting his opinion, I have to agree 100%. Never thought about that until I had that conversation. Just like we all see how Darko and Dwight will help each other grow. I can not imagine a better prototype of a veteran than Vince Carter to help Trevor grow. Because of Trevor's willingness to learn and be coached then add Grant Hill to this mix to tutor young Trevor and you could be looking at a player in Trevor that could eclipse both of their accomplishments in the league. For the sake of Trevor's future, I am hoping Otis finds a way to make a deal work now or in the offseason.

 

http://forums.delphiforums.com/MagicConfid/start

 

WOW!!! This is the BEST news i've heard all weekend. I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO CRUNK RIGHT NOW. Thorn needs to stop being a beotch and give into this trade. Glad to hear Vince and Dwight were the "newly weds" at the all-star events. You could see it on TV also (on the team bus siting by each other, on the bench sitting side by side). This is a GREAT moment to be a Magic fan. And that last bit he said about Treveor possibly surpassing the accomplishments of both VINCE AND GRANT with the right mentoring gave me chills. I was also happy to hear the word around the league is everyone knows Vince is going to Orlando and other GMs don'w want to waste their time with him. I was GLAD to hear Otis is not willing to part with ANY of our young talent...Trevor, Darko, or JJ. If "FutureGM" is right, we should be hearing something by end of tomrrow with Otis' Tuesday deadline. I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight.

[Diplo 12]

Orlando Trade Breakdown

Outgoing

Hedo Turkoglu

Keyon Dooling

J.J. Redick

 

Incoming

Vince Carter

Change in team outlook: -2.4 ppg, -0.5 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

 

Failed Scenario

Due to New Jersey and Orlando being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. New Jersey and Orlando had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did not happen here (only New Jersey met the condition). This trade does not satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

[Diplo 12]

quote:

Originally posted by D-BoFats:

Yeah, but we'd also throw in the Rights to Fran Vasquez, so it would work.

 

Fran has no value so it still doesn't work

 

quote:

Originally posted by ThefutureGM:

quote:

Originally posted by otownmagic333:

Orlando Trade Breakdown

Outgoing

Hedo Turkoglu

Keyon Dooling

J.J. Redick

 

Incoming

Vince Carter

Change in team outlook: -2.4 ppg, -0.5 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

 

Failed Scenario

Due to New Jersey and Orlando being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. New Jersey and Orlando had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did not happen here (only New Jersey met the condition). This trade does not satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

You have to add Pat G in there but I think the deal will involve a 3rd team!

 

if a 3rd team is involved bring in another big!