Official Game Thread: Miami Heat @ Orlando Magic

[Ibn Battuta 127]

If you're not entertained by going to an NBA game, you must be really hard to entertain or you don't like basketball. Otherwise, it's really not hard to have a good time at a game even when the team is bad.

 

But more importantly, do you currently think the problem with the team is that people aren't putting pressure on management to field a good team? Is that really a problem we need to address?

 

I don't think it's a problem yet, this is only year 1 post dwight.

 

But your first statement is interesting. I'm willing to bet the ratio of casual fans to loyal fans is huge. And it's the casual fans that end up filling the arena. Those casual fans are going to be more price sensitive and seek alternative forms of entertainment.

 

I don't really care if Shrute is a diehard or casual fan but either way I don't think it's appropriate to call people out like that, especially if they buy tickets and jerseys.The franchise needs all the support it can get.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

BTW, the loyalists on this board are said Dleague crowd (save Ibn who clearly understands common sense).

 

I already said I don't live in Orlando anymore. If I did I would still come to games because I know they'd be super cheap. I live a frugal lifestyle as it is, so a few bucks and a ride to the games once in a while is certainly in my budget.

 

I went to game 4 of the Hawks vs Magic series in 2010. I couldn't believe I got lower bowl seats for less than $10, only a few rows behind the hoop. And Phillips Arena is pretty nice. Haven't had a chance to see amway yet though.

 

But again, I totally understand your viewpoint. All we can do is hope the team makes progress.

[Johnny Castaway 31]

So, go buy your Heat jersey, sign up on their forum, and enjoy your new team. I'm sure it's a pretty popular place right about now and you seem like just the type that they attract.

 

If you can't understand why we are in the position we are in, and the lengths that the organization has gone through to turn things around from a management perspective, if you insist on sticking your head in the sand and looking only at our win-loss record this season, if you're a bandwagon fan that can only root for a team during the good times, well, I think you will be much happier over there for short run.

 

Your argument is very short sighted and out of place here. If this was the Bobcats forum, where they are a perpetual lotto competitor, sure, I would understand that, I would even agree. This is clearly not the case, and all you do now is come off as a spoiled bandwagon fan that doesn't understand what it takes to really get this team back on the right course and put themselves in contention again.

 

If you need help finding a new jersery, here you go...

 

http://store.nba.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=3022027

 

what I can't understand is why, if a person feels that way (which is legit), why (again) come in a place like this and try to spoil everyone else's fun expressing their disenchantment, over and over and over, as if their true motive is to spread the disillusion ...

[~O~ 565]

What I truly can't fathom is why this argument is taking place. I can compare this situation to being simply poor to wealthy as an analogy, but not in a literal sense Its just an increment on the situation into a better one. This team will be may be lackluster right now . Well they are pretty rich already but you get the point. Everyone starts from somewhere to get to the top. What is being witnessed on court is an abstract of what will be this teams future. This comes with hard work and dedication. For example, when I look at Maurice Harkless, I see hard work and dedication and on a in depth type of way, his improvement statistically is improving the product.

 

I along with long time posters and readers have seen this team come from setting a 19 game losing streak, having controversy with roles in the locker room, player revolts (e.g. Steve Francis). Then the good setting three point field goal records and making another finals appearance, consecutive appearances in the playoffs. The greatest thing was the disgust of the NBA not wanting to televise us because of our actual legitimacy.

 

As a witness of many of this seasons games, the product is improving..and will continue to improve. Exercise your patience....all will be well if the pace continues.

 

[TheREALBrooksThompson 157]

I don't think it's a problem yet, this is only year 1 post dwight.

 

But your first statement is interesting. I'm willing to bet the ratio of casual fans to loyal fans is huge. And it's the casual fans that end up filling the arena. Those casual fans are going to be more price sensitive and seek alternative forms of entertainment.

 

I don't really care if Shrute is a diehard or casual fan but either way I don't think it's appropriate to call people out like that, especially if they buy tickets and jerseys.The franchise needs all the support it can get.

 

Understood, but how does any of that translate into being justified in talking the position that the team is ripping people off? That's what I'm talking issue with.

 

I understand that more people are going to go see a good team. What I'm trying to understand is how this year's team is so bad that you can't have a good time at a game and how Shrute is justified in being outraged at this year's team.

 

You said people should stop going to the games so that the team will be motivated to have a better roster. What are they doing right now that needs to be corrected? When we send them a message with our dollars, what are we trying to communicate? Only that we want more wins? Or is there an issue with the management that we want addressed?

 

If it's the former, I don't know what to say. You're probably going to have a bad time following any sports team in that case.

 

If it's the latter, I'd like to know what these issues are. Because I see a team that has done a 180 from how they managed the team in the past, and it's a 180 in the right direction.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

Understood, but how does any of that translate into being justified in talking the position that the team is ripping people off? That's what I'm talking issue with.

 

The team is ripping you off if you expect a winning team. But that's assuming you are buying a ticket and expect a winning product. In that case you simply don't buy tickets. However not everyone has the same expectations either.

 

I understand that more people are going to go see a good team. What I'm trying to understand is how this year's team is so bad that you can't have a good time at a game and how Shrute is justified in being outraged at this year's team.

 

some people only care about winning and Shrute may be that person. I don't know.

 

 

You said people should stop going to the games so that the team will be motivated to have a better roster. What are they doing right now that needs to be corrected? When we send them a message with our dollars, what are we trying to communicate? Only that we want more wins? Or is there an issue with the management that we want addressed?

 

I wasn't telling people to stop going to games, just that I don't necessarily disagree with that attitude. It is premature to do that right now, but if the losing continues this bad for a few years then yea it's something to consider.

 

 

If it's the former, I don't know what to say. You're probably going to have a bad time following any sports team in that case.

 

If it's the latter, I'd like to know what these issues are. Because I see a team that has done a 180 from how they managed the team in the past, and it's a 180 in the right direction.

 

TBH i'm still skeptical about the front office. Although it's completely different now, the owners are still the same. Devos is still there. Martins is still there. And they all have a say into how things go. I don't think I'll know the answer to this question until a few years from now.

[Audi 60]

Whoooaaa now.... I think this team is much better than some of these posts have indicated.

[Optimist Prime 197]

We've played wire to wire against the Heat twice this season. Our first big losing streak had a lot of games we lost by within five points-- and it started only after Davis went down the first time (I think we could have won half those games if he didn't). This team has shown heart and hustle. They never give up even if they are down twenty in the fourth. Sure, they're young and are still figuring out how to handle the pressure and intensity of the NBA, but I think this is a 30 win team had they stayed fully healthy.

 

That being said, how many teams have never had a losing season? How many teams have never had to shake up the roster? How many teams have never had to deal with players causing trouble? If that's the team you want to follow, then good luck. Can we really be okay with a team that edges into the playoffs year after year but is never really a threat to win anything? I'm a FSU guy, and I was very frustrated during the end of the Bowden years, but I didn't start rooting for UF because of it.

 

The team is working to be better. They are putting guys on the floor with bright futures who don't give up and hold to the team concept lacking in so many superstars today. I love seeing the effort of the guys, and they aren't getting blown out night in and night out. They've been consistently putting up a fight against the best teams in the league. They just fall short because they need to grow in learning how to close out games and play with the intensity level that these more experienced teams play with.

 

I understand not wanting over-pay to watch a team lose. I understand not wanting to have a bad record. What I don't understand is being unwilling to allow a team to go through the growing pains of a rebuild after a single player held the team hostage for two years and yet still was able to get valuable young talent for the future. Blaming the team for being forced into a corner just doesn't make sense to me. To build a contending team, you need to clear cap space. You need to draft high. You need to attract free agents who want larger roles. This requires a couple of losing seasons. The Supersonics still sucked after they picked up Durant. They had three years to work up to being a legitimate playoff team and at least another year after that to become a championship contender.

 

It's attitudes like the ones here that get teams moved out of their home cities. It's why OKC has a basketball team right now. And like people said, if you aren't even willing to give a team a year to rebuild their franchise when their star player spurns them, good luck finding any sport team to follow. If you want to go from team to team, contender to contender, just rooting for whoever is winning, go ahead. But having a home team that you've followed and been with and identify with mean a whole lot more when that banner is raised, or when that one player has a breakout year.

 

I don't know if this adds anything to the conversation, but I just felt like I needed to say that. Go root for the Jazz or the Bucks, or any of those bridesmaid teams in the league if you want a team that's afraid to knock down what isn't working and start over. But if you want to have a purposeful team committed to becoming a champion, you won't find that without a little growing pains.

[NickAnderson 14]

Wow we have some spoiled people here, At least we are relevant for 5-6 years at a time, try being a team like the Bobcats or the damn Bucks.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

The team is ripping you off if you expect a winning team. But that's assuming you are buying a ticket and expect a winning product. In that case you simply don't buy tickets. However not everyone has the same expectations either.

 

Was it reasonable and/or rational to expect a winning team this season?

 

some people only care about winning and Shrute may be that person. I don't know.

 

If you expect/demand a winning team every season, is it possible to be a "loyal" fan to any one team? Every team has ups and downs, especially smaller market teams that need to tear down and use the draft to help rebuild themselves into contention.

 

I wasn't telling people to stop going to games, just that I don't necessarily disagree with that attitude. It is premature to do that right now, but if the losing continues this bad for a few years then yea it's something to consider.

 

Exactly, it's premature and out of place at this point, which is why everyone has reacted to his posts the way they have. This isn't Charlotte or D.C. that have been bad for a long time, this is a team rebuilding that, until this year, was fairly successful.

 

TBH i'm still skeptical about the front office. Although it's completely different now, the owners are still the same. Devos is still there. Martins is still there. And they all have a say into how things go. I don't think I'll know the answer to this question until a few years from now.

 

Perfectly reasonable position, especially with how bad the front office has been in the past.

[30Assists 342]

I understand not wanting over-pay to watch a team lose. I understand not wanting to have a bad record. What I don't understand is being unwilling to allow a team to go through the growing pains of a rebuild after a single player held the team hostage for two years and yet still was able to get valuable young talent for the future. Blaming the team for being forced into a corner just doesn't make sense to me. To build a contending team, you need to clear cap space. You need to draft high. You need to attract free agents who want larger roles. This requires a couple of losing seasons. The Supersonics still sucked after they picked up Durant. They had three years to work up to being a legitimate playoff team and at least another year after that to become a championship contender.

 

It's attitudes like the ones here that get teams moved out of their home cities. It's why OKC has a basketball team right now. And like people said, if you aren't even willing to give a team a year to rebuild their franchise when their star player spurns them, good luck finding any sport team to follow. If you want to go from team to team, contender to contender, just rooting for whoever is winning, go ahead. But having a home team that you've followed and been with and identify with mean a whole lot more when that banner is raised, or when that one player has a breakout year.

That's not what happened in Seattle. People here are STILL intense Sonics fans and were even when (Starbucks founder and multi-billionaire) Schultz was whining about the city not building a stadium for him immediately. While we were still paying off two other gargantihuge stadiums forced through by another billionaire in the early years of the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, while said Schultz was letting all the local fan favorites walk away for nothing.

 

To put it into an Orlando perspective, imagine the CEO of Disney demanded that Orlando rebuild Disneyworld, Universal demanded that the city rebuild that park, and THEN RDV came out and said "build me a HUUUUGE stadium with taxes or I'll sell the team."

 

Now imagine RDV didn't say that during the Shaq or the Dwight years, but said it RIGHT NOW. Oh, and traded away 'Meer. Do you think that would fly?

 

That's what happened here in Seattle. And Clay Effing Bennett bought the team with a handshake deal that he wouldn't move the team, and even had plans for reducing the tax burden and hoisting the team to the Bellevue suburb (richer part of town - the current stadium, sans Key Arena, are all in the sketch part).

 

It seemed like a good deal, but then the inside emails of "OKC's getting a team, y'all!" came out and Bennett was revealed to be an underhanded piece of Dwight. For the record, THAT was when the locals stopped going to the games: AFTER Clay effing Bennett was already hellbent on moving the team.

 

***** Clay Bennett.

 

But I'm not bitter...

[Dwight Shrute 10]

Aside from our magical run in 09 (no pun intended), have we really been that relevant? I don't think so......not in the Miami/Boston/LAL/OKC way.

 

I've never seen a FO consistently make so many piss-poor decisions like I have with the Magic. You had the Shaq thing, the GHill debacle, trading a scoring champ for Steve f'in Francis, signing Gilbert Arenas to a 65 trillion dollar contract, signing Rashard Lewis to a 65 trillion dollar contract, using a lotttery pick to draft a guy who had no intentions of ever playing in the NBA, and allowing the worst GM in the history of all professional sports to retain his job for 6 years.

 

Grant Hill - the only aformentioned decision you can't truly blame on the Magic......no one knew he would be a 5 year walking injury.

Shaq - does that really need debating? But, one must be concerned that he has later laid blame on the Orlando FO for his departure.

Steve Francis - good god, really? Really, FO? The FO must have literally been strung out on some serious smack when that decision was made.......wow

Gilbert Arenas - thanks Otis, some guy playing in China is still the highest paid member of the Orlando Magic

Rashard Lewis - wasn't the worst player ever in a Magic uniform, but was he worth Michael Jordan money? No, he was worth what we would NORMALLY pay a 3 point specialist

Fran Vazquez - yeah, Danny Granger sucked so let's take some whipped, Spanish guy, instead.......I've scored as many points in the NBA as Fran has

 

 

Let me throw another blunder out there that will definitely get a bunch of panties in a bunch, hell, it may even cause a few sharts:

 

Trading CWebb for Penny in the 1993 draft. Penny was great, but how much better would the Magic have been if we kept Cwebb. That would have been an amazing frontcourt, but our FO, GET THIS, let a player do their job.......reference to Shaq not wanting the Magic to draft CWebb. You think the Magic would have NOT let history repeat itself when Dwight started making his demands. Guess what, he did, and he left just like Shaq.

 

You dudes can seriously continue to shell out your hardearned cash on a team whose executives have proven throughout its existence to be complete malcontents.

 

No, I am boycottting and will continue to boycott the Magic (and the NBA in general) until our executives start to make informed decisons, and said decisions actually pan out into success.