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Payton4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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Odin    14
10 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

you hope we can offer Gordon the max extension?

So I am not getting these max contracts to guys coming off of their rookie contracts without having shown enough- no all-nbas, no all star selections, no playoff success. (This includes our guys, potentially). They are being paid still for potential that they may never reach- getting high potential guys is always good, but it is good because they should be cheap.

I mean, I do get it, teams are afraid the players will flee to a higher bidder if they don't offer the max- but is that smart in the long run? Is that how successful teams are run? I get giving a player like Anthony Davis a max contract- he had dragged New Orleans to the playoffs and been an All-Star and All-NBA player. Or Paul George who had also gotten All-star and All-NBA nods and played in the playoffs. But these players getting them now- what have they done to earn these types of contracts? Why are teams paying so much for potential that may never be filled (especially concerning is Embiid's health. I hope the guy can stay healthy as he looks like he could be a fun player to watch, but Philly will likely be stuck as a mediocre team if he can never stay healthy (I assume Simmons and Fultz will be able to drag the team into the playoffs by themselves over the next two seasons at least))

Maybe I am being an old stick in the mud, but the player should actually have accomplished something to be getting a max contract. Gordon probably should be getting around $100m (and even that seems high to me), but will probably get more because teams have collectively decided to overpay for potential.

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King Close    2
40 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

you hope we can offer Gordon the max extension?

Yea I don't get why he'd hope that unless it was a typo. I woke up this morning and thought I read AG resigned 5 years 80 something million. That'd be a dream scenario that won't happen but I was pretty stoked for a split second. 

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Payton4thewin    1,059
1 minute ago, Odin said:

So I am not getting these max contracts to guys coming off of their rookie contracts without having shown enough- no all-nbas, no all star selections, no playoff success. (This includes our guys, potentially). They are being paid still for potential that they may never reach- getting high potential guys is always good, but it is good because they should be cheap.

I mean, I do get it, teams are afraid the players will flee to a higher bidder if they don't offer the max- but is that smart in the long run? Is that how successful teams are run? I get giving a player like Anthony Davis a max contract- he had dragged New Orleans to the playoffs and been an All-Star and All-NBA player. Or Paul George who had also gotten All-star and All-NBA nods and played in the playoffs. But these players getting them now- what have they done to earn these types of contracts? Why are teams paying so much for potential that may never be filled (especially concerning is Embiid's health. I hope the guy can stay healthy as he looks like he could be a fun player to watch, but Philly will likely be stuck as a mediocre team if he can never stay healthy (I assume Simmons and Fultz will be able to drag the team into the playoffs by themselves over the next two seasons at least))

Maybe I am being an old stick in the mud, but the player should actually have accomplished something to be getting a max contract. Gordon probably should be getting around $100m (and even that seems high to me), but will probably get more because teams have collectively decided to overpay for potential.

don't think of it as a "deserves" thing. think of it as a market value thing. With Embiid, someone was going to offer him a max deal because he could be the best player in the NBA. Philly was able to offer him a deal that had a bunch of incentives built in to it.

Wiggins is kind of the opposite situation. I think it makes more sense for Minnesota to offer him that extension based on the way their roster is loaded with talent. Maybe he's just a third option guy and they overpaid him. But at this point it doesn't matter because it doesn't impact their team at all because they already have Butler and Towns (and his looming extension too). I don't think, in a vacuum, wiggins is worth that money though.

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NBA scouts take on the Magic

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/10/11/nba-scouts-analysis-cavaliers-warriors-celtics-lebron-james

Quote

This has to be the year that Elfrid Payton shows that he’s capable of orchestration. He’s had streaks. At the end of last year he was putting up triple doubles, and I thought he might finally be getting it. I’m curious how Payton is going to generate his scoring. Is he going to be a slasher? How much can he improve his shooting? It’s not just that he can’t shoot. He doesn’t shoot. ... Nikola Vucevic would remind me of Brook Lopez if he could rebound better. He’s going to fill the scoring void and can shoot a reasonably high percentage, but how much you can contribute is limited when you can’t defend. ... Bismack Biyombo is going to be limited offensively forever. If you could take Biyombo’s defense and Vucevic’s offense, you’d have an All-Star. ... Evan Fournier is just a crafty, smart player. He can handle the ball, he can initiate some offense, but the bottom line is that he just produces. He’s not an elite athlete, but he plays under control and that makes him consistent ... Aaron Gordon has so much raw ability. The dunks are just a manifestation of his athletic superiority. Some guys are difference-makers the minute they step into the league. Then there are guys, like Gordon, who get incrementally better each year. If they can establish a positionless system at times, Gordon can flourish. ...You want more from Mario Hezonja, but he’s never demonstrated—even overseas—that he’ll regularly attack the rim. I don’t think he knows what his NBA identity is going to be yet and by Year Three, that’s kind of important.

 

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Payton4thewin    1,059
7 minutes ago, magicblue said:

AG looks a little Grant Hill'ish in these highlights

yeah.

biggest improvement is he's just getting the ball and going. taking the jumper. getting to the spot he wants with efficient dribbles. no standing there and sizing people up and showing off his handles while he dances with the ball for 4 seconds before taking a contested midrange jumper. Just getting the ball and making his time with it mean something.

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Odin    14
56 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

don't think of it as a "deserves" thing. think of it as a market value thing. With Embiid, someone was going to offer him a max deal because he could be the best player in the NBA. Philly was able to offer him a deal that had a bunch of incentives built in to it.

Wiggins is kind of the opposite situation. I think it makes more sense for Minnesota to offer him that extension based on the way their roster is loaded with talent. Maybe he's just a third option guy and they overpaid him. But at this point it doesn't matter because it doesn't impact their team at all because they already have Butler and Towns (and his looming extension too). I don't think, in a vacuum, wiggins is worth that money though.

I know- I am just saying that the market seems to be over-valuing potential right now- for the reasons stated- which has made players like Gordon likely more expensive.

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5 hours ago, Payton4thewin said:

He's intense.  He thinks he's better than he is and that's going to manifest itself into him shooting us out of a game at least once this year.  But we'll have an ongoing "should Simmons start" debate for a long time unless he actually can shoot. 

I've been waiting for a guy like this since Matt Barnes...His grit outweighs the few games he may lose for us this year. 

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Mauro Pedrosa    281
2 minutes ago, TheNameIsOrlando said:

I've been waiting for a guy like this since Matt Barnes...His grit outweighs the few games he may lose for us this year. 

The best part is that Simmons is actually a good player

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