Henny has been fired!

[Franchise408 116]

So who did you mean we'd be building around when you literally said, "At least we'd have something to build around", three posts back?

 

Overall talent. We would have more overall talent on the roster than we have now, making us more attractive for even more talent to come and play for.

 

You do know we were that "mediocre", 8th seed talent when we attracted Rashard Lewis to come play for us, and put us over the hump, right?

 

Because being mediocre isn't a destination, it's a stepping stone. You don't jump from bad to good. It comes in steps. Iguodala isn't the end goal. It would have been a step.

 

The mindset on this board seems to be

 

1. Tank

2. Draft somebody

3. ????

4. Profit

 

You guys seem to think that a draft pick is a magical cure all that makes us go from bad to contender. But it is a process, and yes, being a low seed playoff entry is part of that process.

[magicblue 315]

Overall talent. We would have more overall talent on the roster than we have now, making us more attractive for even more talent to come and play for.

 

You do know we were that "mediocre", 8th seed talent when we attracted Rashard Lewis to come play for us, and put us over the hump, right?

 

Because being mediocre isn't a destination, it's a stepping stone. You don't jump from bad to good. It comes in steps. Iguodala isn't the end goal. It would have been a step.

 

The mindset on this board seems to be

 

1. Tank

2. Draft somebody

3. ????

4. Profit

 

You guys seem to think that a draft pick is a magical cure all that makes us go from bad to contender. But it is a process, and yes, being a low seed playoff entry is part of that process.

 

 

So again, you believe a team lead by Iggy would have magically landed us more talented options in FA? This is what you're saying right? This is where we disagree. I have yet to hear any viable plan, contrary to the "build through the draft" plan implemented, that gets us to the place you seem to think we should be. Iggy is not a stepping stone to greater things, he's an above average role player..a final piece kind of guy. Harrison Barnes? Sorry, I just don't see it.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

So again, you believe a team lead by Iggy would have magically landed us more talented options in FA? This is what you're saying right? This is where we disagree. I have yet to hear any viable plan, contrary to the "build through the draft" plan implemented, that gets us to the place you seem to think we should be. Iggy is not a stepping stone to greater things, he's an above average role player..a final piece kind of guy. Harrison Barnes? Sorry, I just don't see it.

 

Dallas sure looked like a team ready to contend this year

[Franchise408 116]

So again, you believe a team lead by Iggy would have magically landed us more talented options in FA? This is what you're saying right? This is where we disagree. I have yet to hear any viable plan, contrary to the "build through the draft" plan implemented, that gets us to the place you seem to think we should be. Iggy is not a stepping stone to greater things, he's an above average role player..a final piece kind of guy. Harrison Barnes? Sorry, I just don't see it.

 

And building through the draft has been working for us?

 

You are looking at Iggy and Barnes through a vacuum. As a matter of fact, I was even against bringing in Barnes last year, but under the context that, due to all of our cap space, we'd make a bigger splash than Bismack Biyombo. Knowing what I know now after the fact, I absolutely would have brought in a Harrison Barnes to add a little bit more shooting to this team. Something that is much needed.

[jec 427]

 

You guys seem to think that a draft pick is a magical cure all that makes us go from bad to contender. But it is a process, and yes, being a low seed playoff entry is part of that process.

 

Um. We started that process by drafting a superstar center.

 

Similar thing happened 13 years before that.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Um. We started that process by drafting a superstar center.

 

Similar thing happened 13 years before that.

 

 

I've got his record on repeat. The standard response is "shaq/ Dwight won nothing by himself"

 

Which is a pointless response because it doesn't address the main point

[jec 427]

I've got his record on repeat. The standard response is "shaq/ Dwight won nothing by himself"

 

Which is a pointless response because it doesn't address the main point

 

Which is that they were cornerstones to build around. Attracting quality free agents and the like. Penny falling into our lap was a freak accident but it only expediated the process. Any team with young Shaq on it would have players lining up to hop on the bandwagon.

[JJZFL 619]

Um. We started that process by drafting a superstar center.

 

Similar thing happened 13 years before that.

 

The problem is you can't count on that to keep happening, no matter how bad you make the team in the hope that history will repeat itself. We purposely dismantled the remaining veteran core after Howard left. The rationale was you have to become terrible to land another superstar. Well we accomplished the terrible part. We succeeded in making ourselves a destination that no decent free agent in their right mind would ever consider. We didn't want to be mediocre?? Right now mediocre sounds like nirvana to me. A lot closer to being good than we are right now.

 

At this point I'd put the odds of our making the playoffs in the next five years less than 50-50.

[Franchise408 116]

The problem is you can't count on that to keep happening, no matter how bad you make the team in the hope that history will repeat itself. We purposely dismantled the remaining veteran core after Howard left. The rationale was you have to become terrible to land another superstar. Well we accomplished the terrible part. We succeeded in making ourselves a destination that no decent free agent in their right mind would ever consider. We didn't want to be mediocre?? Right now mediocre sounds like nirvana to me. A lot closer to being good than we are right now.

 

At this point I'd put the odds of our making the playoffs in the next five years less than 50-50.

 

This.

 

We got lucky that we were able to draft high when we did to get them. Had we missed those picks? Or had we do what we are doing right now by playing the whole "let's suck to draft high again" game? We are setting our franchise back even further.

 

OUR PAST DRAFTING SUCCESS WAS PREDICATED ON LUCK, ON BEING IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME, AND THE STARS HAPPENED TO ALIGN JUST RIGHT

 

That is NOT a reliable or consistent model to build off of. It is unreliable, and depends on far too many unreliable circumstances that are beyond anybody's control. It is ONLY a successful model in instances where those odds happen to go in your favor, which the odds are ever again. There are 30 franchises, and 1 top draft pick every year. That's already a 1 in 30 chance assuming you win the ping pong lottery, which by definition reduces the already 1 in 30 odds. Then you are hoping that #1 pick is LeBron, Shaq, or Dwight, and no Bargnani, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, or Michael Bennett.

 

The odds AREN'T in your favor, even IF you successfully implement a "tank" strategy.

 

That's why being proactive is so vital. It is a GM's job to make it work by any means necessary. And plenty of championship teams have shown this. In fact, far more in recent memory than those that have "tanked"

[the notorious S.A.C. 89]

I don't remember that, at all. Dwight Howard was considered nowhere near the lock that LeBron was, Okafor was considered to be more NBA ready, and was considered to be the smarter pick for us at the time. It was a gamble that Weisbrod ended up going with Howard, and a gamble that clearly paid off.

 

That said, Howard was also drafted into a far better situation than Okafor was, being drafted onto a team that had the core of a playoff team from the previous year (Francis, Mobley, and Kato from Houston), plus the additions of Turkoglu and Nelson. In fact, we probably would have been a playoff team that 1st year had we not made the horrible trade of Mobley for Christie.

 

As sure as Martins is a cockroach....that was the report from ESPN in the day. All but 2 GMs evaluated Dwight as their pick. Okafor was safer but Dwight had much more upside and was still growing at the time.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

I just want to bring something up with the whole tank strategy. I do know that teams have tanked and succeeded. I'm not against it. I'm just bringing something up.

 

LeBron didn't win a championship because he was drafted by Cleveland. He won a championship because he left to Miami, a team that had won a championship a few years ago, and had an MVP caliber player. Cleveland didn't win a championship because the drafted LeBron James. They won a championship because LeBron James came there in free agency. Kyrie Irving is an integral part of the championship, I understand. But they don't win a championship without LeBron coming there in FA. Kevin Love is a huge part of that team. But LeBron almost won a championship without either of them two years ago in the finals. But does LeBron ever win a championship if he doesn't go to Miami? Hard to tell. Durant spent how many years in OKC, not winning a championship?

 

My point with this is that culture counts. The only high lottery pick to lead a team to a championship with the team that drafted him (without leaving to win one somewhere else first) since Michael Jordan is Tim Duncan. Guess what wasn't a problem with San Antonio: culture. Dwyane Wade was drafted #5, which is debatable for tanking strategy territory, so I'll explain why he is closer to Duncan than tank strategy example. They certainly weren't tanking when they got him. They won 25 games the year they got Wade; but they were that bad because Eddie Jones and Alonzo Mourning got hurt, not because they were tanking. They won 36 games the year before, and 42 Wade's rookie year. And DWade doesn't get that championship in '06 without them bringing in Shaq.

 

Oklahoma City tanked and got Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and James Harden in consecutive drafts. They basically wrote the book on how exactly to run the tank game. They intentionally built a team that couldn't win games, then drafted the best player in three consecutive drafts. They won 0 championships, only went to 1. Why? Hard to say, definitively. But I'm betting a huge part of it is culture. Even in a perfect storm, its hard to overcome, to shake off the mentality of the tank, the mentality that tells you it's okay, in fact sometimes better, to lose.

 

Whatever happens next, we must fix the culture of this team.

[jec 427]

The problem is you can't count on that to keep happening, no matter how bad you make the team in the hope that history will repeat itself. We purposely dismantled the remaining veteran core after Howard left. The rationale was you have to become terrible to land another superstar. Well we accomplished the terrible part. We succeeded in making ourselves a destination that no decent free agent in their right mind would ever consider. We didn't want to be mediocre?? Right now mediocre sounds like nirvana to me. A lot closer to being good than we are right now.

 

At this point I'd put the odds of our making the playoffs in the next five years less than 50-50.

 

You can definitely count on history to repeat itself eventually. With the current system in place, the best way to acquire a superstar is in the lottery. And you need a superstar to attract better players and win a championship. What other option do we have? Would you perhaps have been happier trading Dwight for Brook Lopez? I'm not seeing what the alternative is and why it would be any more viable.

 

Best bet is to try to get lucky in the draft. Eventually it will happen. Happens for every struggling franchise. After that it's up to management to bring in more talent and a decent coach.