2017 Official Offseason Thread

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I don't understand the hate for Vuc on this board. Our biggest problem isn't that Fournier, or Vuc sucks, it is that neither of them is a go-to scorer and alpha dog player. That is what we are missing with this team. We have a lot of guys who are good, they are just being asked to do more than they are capable of. You could go pretty far with them as your second or third best player, but you don't have that superstar to lead them. I just don't know how we get that All-Star, alpha-dog player to lead them. We haven't really had draft luck, and I'm not sure we have the assets to trade for them.

 

No. No. The problem with vucevic is his offense isn't good enough to justify his poor defense. You can't go anywhere with vucevic as your starter. A good team just puts him in a pick and roll and feasts.

[jmmagicfan 302]

No. No. The problem with vucevic is his offense isn't good enough to justify his poor defense. You can't go anywhere with vucevic as your starter. A good team just puts him in a pick and roll and feasts.

 

He's never been a great defender, true; but I think he is expending so much energy trying to be the offensive alpha, that he doesn't have the energy he needs on D. He was a better rebounder and defender his first couple years with us, I just think he's being asked to do too much. An alpha takes some of that pressure off the offensive end, and lets him concentrate more on D.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

He's never been a great defender, true; but I think he is expending so much energy trying to be the offensive alpha, that he doesn't have the energy he needs on D. He was a better rebounder and defender his first couple years with us, I just think he's being asked to do too much. An alpha takes some of that pressure off the offensive end, and lets him concentrate more on D.

 

Eh i disagree

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

No. No. The problem with vucevic is his offense isn't good enough to justify his poor defense. You can't go anywhere with vucevic as your starter. A good team just puts him in a pick and roll and feasts.

 

He also has a ****ty on court attitude when things aren't going his way.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,032]

You could go pretty far with them as your second or third best player

When you think you've seen it all...

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

When you think you've seen it all...

 

its a problem with people's inability to put performance in context. That averaging 19 and 11 on a 25 win team has the same value as averaging 19 and 11 on a 40 win team.

[Soul Bro 1,420]

The problem is Vooch thinks he's an underappreciated alpha dog, and he also seems unaware of his limitations

[Justin Jaudon 221]

He's never been a great defender, true; but I think he is expending so much energy trying to be the offensive alpha, that he doesn't have the energy he needs on D. He was a better rebounder and defender his first couple years with us, I just think he's being asked to do too much. An alpha takes some of that pressure off the offensive end, and lets him concentrate more on D.

 

I think there probably is SOME truth to this, but not enough that I'm willing to have Vuc as a long-term starting center. I think to some degree we've seen this. In the beginning of the Skiles season, when the Vic, Fournier, and Harris were scoring most of our points, Vuc looked way better on D, for the most part. It wasn't until after he took on more of the offensive load that he started to consistently look like crap again. Same thing this year, everyone agrees he looked better this past season on D. But he basically lost the OKC game for us at the beginning of Skiles' year, because we couldn't defend a pick and role even a little bit with him on the floor. The same thing this year. He's better overall, with clearly more energy as a rim protector, but he's still a liability on that end, especially against the pick and role. This is why he was drafted 16th overall, despite being a very effective and versatile offensive center who was a great rebounder at USC, because his lateral movement is just not ever going to be good enough to defend a pick and role. He's a terrific bench piece, if his ego will allow him to be that, because of his offensive game and rebounding. But relying on him full-time, even as your third best starter, is a bad idea because sometimes he is all but unplayable on defense, and there's not a whole lot more he can do about that.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

its a problem with people's inability to put performance in context. That averaging 19 and 11 on a 25 win team has the same value as averaging 19 and 11 on a 40 win team.

 

eh, he went 18 and 9 on a 35-win team, only playing 31 minutes a night. That's still good numbers on not a god-awful team. The problem isn't context in terms of wins, it's context in terms of pluses and minuses. Put him on that OKC team with Westbrook and sure (assuming no 'Stache Bros), he could put up those numbers and look like the second-best player on a playoff team. But there's a reason Enes Kanter isn't actually starting for OKC: because his potential 19 and 11 is less valuable than Steven Adams' 11 and 7.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I think there probably is SOME truth to this, but not enough that I'm willing to have Vuc as a long-term starting center. I think to some degree we've seen this. In the beginning of the Skiles season, when the Vic, Fournier, and Harris were scoring most of our points, Vuc looked way better on D, for the most part. It wasn't until after he took on more of the offensive load that he started to consistently look like crap again. Same thing this year, everyone agrees he looked better this past season on D. But he basically lost the OKC game for us at the beginning of Skiles' year, because we couldn't defend a pick and role even a little bit with him on the floor. The same thing this year. He's better overall, with clearly more energy as a rim protector, but he's still a liability on that end, especially against the pick and role. This is why he was drafted 16th overall, despite being a very effective and versatile offensive center who was a great rebounder at USC, because his lateral movement is just not ever going to be good enough to defend a pick and role. He's a terrific bench piece, if his ego will allow him to be that, because of his offensive game and rebounding. But relying on him full-time, even as your third best starter, is a bad idea because sometimes he is all but unplayable on defense, and there's not a whole lot more he can do about that.

 

and it's year 7 from him. he's played 400 games now. at some point you have to stop expecting anything more than marginal improvement.

[Odin 137]

its a problem with people's inability to put performance in context. That averaging 19 and 11 on a 25 win team has the same value as averaging 19 and 11 on a 40 win team.

 

It should be noted that his 19 and 11 also comes on mediocre to bad efficiency (seriously, last season he was behind Payton and Gordon in TS%.) As a center last year, he couldn't even break 50% TS%- that is just sad.

[Jason Funderburker 111]

The basketball world respects Vogel significantly more than Mike Brown as a basketball mind.

And yet he spent the whole read trying to make Gordon an on-ball 3