Gamethread : Wizards vs Magic

[HeHateMe 697]

We're 3 games under .500 the playoffs are absolutely not out of reach.

 

Depends entirely on what happens this road trip. We go 1-5 or 2-4 and the season could start to spiral. We steal a couple and go 3-3 and we'll be fine.

 

This team is not a playoff team. We're not. It's that simple. This team cannot score enough points to be considered a legit playoff team. Could we somehow gimp into the playoffs as an 8 seed in a weak Eastern Conference and get swept by the Cavs? I suppose. But I highly doubt this team is capable of even that.

 

I've never watched a Magic team struggle so much to score--and idk why I or anyone else is remotely surprised by this we all knew this would be the case before the year started.

[HeHateMe 697]

Right. So let's say tomorrow a team doctor realized Payton needs glasses and it improves his shot so that he's a 37% three point shooter.

 

Even after that do we think he's the long term answer? Is mentality improvable? You see this sometimes with young players on great veteran teams where they have to be prodded to take over.

 

But can he improve when he's been given every opportunity for it to be his team and he still has these issues?

 

My biggest issue with Payton (and they've been well documented on here) isn't just that he is an abysmal shooter--it's that he picks and chooses when he wants to play hard. It's the most frustrating thing ever to watch. He did it again tonight. He absolutely sleep walks to start the game--then randomly has a 6 minute stretch where he's engaged as hell on defense and working into the paint on offense.

 

I can't stand it.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

This team is not a playoff team. We're not. It's that simple. This team cannot score enough points to be considered a legit playoff team. Could we somehow gimp into the playoffs as an 8 seed in a weak Eastern Conference and get swept by the Cavs? I suppose. But I highly doubt this team is capable of even that.

 

I've never watched a Magic team struggle so much to score--and idk why I or anyone else is remotely surprised by this we all knew this would be the case before the year started.

 

"This team isnt a playoff team but could make the playoffs"

 

Wut?

[Magicman28 295]

Right. So let's say tomorrow a team doctor realized Payton needs glasses and it improves his shot so that he's a 37% three point shooter.

 

Even after that do we think he's the long term answer? Is mentality improvable? You see this sometimes with young players on great veteran teams where they have to be prodded to take over.

 

But can he improve when he's been given every opportunity for it to be his team and he still has these issues?

 

I don't know. In my experience it takes a low point. The crazy part is when they're on, they're on like mad but the switch is dictated by some event.

 

Guys who are consistent can switch it on themselves routinely. Complete opposite of Payton.

[Franchero MVP 391]

Sick of Payton

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

My biggest issue with Payton (and they've been well documented on here) isn't just that he is an abysmal shooter--it's that he picks and chooses when he wants to play hard. It's the most frustrating thing ever to watch. He did it again tonight. He absolutely sleep walks to start the game--then randomly has a 6 minute stretch where he's engaged as hell on defense and working into the paint on offense.

 

I can't stand it.

 

He's had about 6 of those stretches in his career when he legitimately looks like the best defensive point guard in the nba. He had a 5 minute stretch against Milwaukee where he flustered delly enough that he turned the ball over 5 times and made him look like a division 2 freshman.

 

But what does that mean when a third of the time he's a below average defender?

 

 

Payton might be the most frustrating player I've ever watched. He's like point guard Ricky Davis or something. Maybe Darius miles.

[Magicman28 295]

He's had about 6 of those stretches in his career when he legitimately looks like the best defensive point guard in the nba. He had a 5 minute stretch against Milwaukee where he flustered delly enough that he turned the ball over 5 times and made him look like a division 2 freshman.

 

But what does that mean when a third of the time he's a below average defender?

 

 

Payton might be the most frustrating player I've ever watched. He's like point guard Ricky Davis or something. Maybe Darius miles.

 

 

Darius Miles....Good comparison.

[Odin 137]

Jeff Green sucks, and Vogel is an idiot for continuing to play him. He adds no benefit to the team that I can tell, and yet is consistently played over a younger, more consistent, and way more talented player in Gordon. Vogel is supposed to be a good/ talented coach, but his usage of Green makes me doubt that every game.

 

Green is paid enough to sit on the end of the bench in a suit, and not complain one iota. If he is being played to keep him happy, and he will be a problem otherwise, cut his sorry ass. Otherwise, stick him where he belongs- at the end of the bench, where I can forget about his presence.

 

Such action will not guarantee that we win more games- we have plenty of other glaring issues that are holding us back. But the constant play of our worst rotation player over our best talent is baffling and ridiculous. There is no universe in which Gordon should be splitting time with Green.

[magicjed23 12]

If Cousins ever officially demanded a trade, it would be a bidding war we are not likely to win. Every team would want him.

 

We would have to give up Gordon and Vucevic for sure. Cousins is still young and would be dominant in the East. He is Dwight with killer instincts, and has much stronger offense and above average defense. If you had Cousins, Ibaka, Hezonja, Former and Payton as starters we would be a immensely better team that would attract a 2nd Star in the off season.

 

He is worth Gordon, Vucevic, and our first round pick for 2 drafts. If they wanted they could get Ibaka over Gordon. People are really overrating AG and underestimating Cousins. We would have a rejuvenated early prime DC. And we would treat him like the savior of the team and he would respond. His fire combined with Biyombo and Ibaka would be amazing. Ibaka focused on defense and not needing to be big scorer would make us dangerous.

 

If we didn't make a dea and Gordon was the deciding factor, than highlight dunks are more important than winning to this organization. Gordon will never be Cousins, even if he maxed out his potential.

 

Cousins wants to be the focal point and wants guys with as much passion and effort as he can give who would defer to him. We can be everything he needs.

 

We traded Harris and Oladipo and all we have is an Ibaka tryout. Cousins might be the only available star out there. We have no real expectations of being any threat to be close to being in the top half of the conference, even if we suddenly break out. We say we want to win now than we must be offering Sacto everything.

 

We have not been good enough to want great players who are angels. Look who our "Choir boy with the huge smile" turned out, he acted like a kid disguising his true character. Are we that worried about a few technical fouls and 1 or 2 games missed to suspension if it's a top 5 frontcourt All-Star? I want some fire. Get mad when we lose players. Vogel can coach tough guys.

 

Look, Cousins might never be acquireable, but if he is available , we're foolish not to try.

 

If you would choose Gordon over Cousins, than you're an AG fan, not a Magic fan. The only reason you wouldn't trade for Cousins is if he won't give us a chance. This board would be ecstatic to get him and all Magic fans would go insane with excitement. You don't know the sport if you don't think he is worth any minor headache he could bring because he is passionate . Winning cures all.

[HeHateMe 697]

"This team isnt a playoff team but could make the playoffs"

 

Wut?

 

As mentioned in my previous post, we are not and will not be a LEGIT playoff team. Gimping in as a crap 8 seed in the crap east just to get swept in the first round isn't an accomplishment.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

If Cousins ever officially demanded a trade, it would be a bidding war we are not likely to win. Every team would want him.

 

We would have to give up Gordon and Vucevic for sure. Cousins is still young and would be dominant in the East. With much stronger offense and above average defense. If you had Cousins, Ibaka, Hezonja, Former and Payton as starters we would be a immensely better team that would attract a 2nd Star in the off season.

 

He is worth Gordon, Vucevic, and our first round pick for 2 drafts. If they wanted they could get Ibaka over Gordon. People are really overrating AG and underestimating Cousins. We would have a rejuvenated early prime DC. And we would treat him like the savior of the team and he would respond. His fire combined with Biyombo and Ibaka would be amazing. Ibaka focused on defense and not needing to be big scorer would make us dangerous.

 

If we didn't make a dea and Gordon was the deciding factor, than highlight dunks are more important than winning to this organization. Gordon will never be Cousins, even if he maxed out his potential.

 

Cousins wants to be the focal point and wants guys with as much passion and effort as he can give who would defer to him. We can be everything he needs.

 

We traded Harris and Oladipo and all we have is an Ibaka tryout. Cousins might be the only available star out there. We have no real expectations of being any threat to be close to being in the top half of the conference, even if we suddenly break out. We say we want to win now than we must be offering Sacto everything.

 

We have not been good enough to want great players who are angels. Look who our "Choir boy with the huge smile" turned out, he acted like a kid disguising his true character. Are we that worried about a few technical fouls and 1 or 2 games missed to suspension if it's a top 5 frontcourt All-Star? I want some fire. Get mad when we lose players. Vogel can coach tough guys.

 

Look, Cousins might never be acquireable, but if he is available , we're foolish not to try.

 

If you would choose Gordon over Cousins, than you're an AG fan, not a Magic fan. The only reason you wouldn't trade for Cousins is if he won't give us a chance. This board would be ecstatic to get him and all Magic fans would go insane with excitement. You don't know the sport if you don't think he is worth any minor headache he could bring because he is passionate . Winning cures all.

 

It is debatable that cousins, talent and all, doesn't have the personality to lead a winning team. Other players look like they hate playing with him

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

Right. So let's say tomorrow a team doctor realized Payton needs glasses and it improves his shot so that he's a 37% three point shooter.

 

Even after that do we think he's the long term answer? Is mentality improvable? You see this sometimes with young players on great veteran teams where they have to be prodded to take over.

 

But can he improve when he's been given every opportunity for it to be his team and he still has these issues?

 

I'm of the belief you cant teach mental fortitude. If he doesnt have it now he wont have it later.

 

I like Payton but its probably time to move on.