Is It Time for Rob to Go?

[the notorious S.A.C. 89]

Wee giving rob till the end of the year -- firing a gm midway through the season is stupid and won't happen. We're gonna see how his trades pan out and decide at the end.

 

It is thus kind of thinking that allowed Otis to sink us into what was the worst team dollar wise in NBA history. He knew he was gone if he didn't hit a home run so what the heck he drove it into the dirt....like twenty feet deep. Face it his moves at best have created an 8th seed of a team with little upward movement possible.

 

Sure he had bad lotto luck but needing to trade up one or two slots he stood pat and selected players which are long term projects which is now a fail in my book. I think it is obvious Rob isn't getting this team to the finals anytime soon. If that is the case cut bait and move on...just don't let him trade two of our future firsts on what will be a crappy team for some stiff who we will be glad to see leave in two years. I saw aotis do it...don't need to see it again.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

It is thus kind of thinking that allowed Otis to sink us into what was the worst team dollar wise in NBA history. He knew he was gone if he didn't hit a home run so what the heck

 

That's not how front offices work. This isn't like video games. Gms don't get to throw money around as they see fit. They have to get approval for every move with the exception of end of bench minimum guys.

[Soul Bro 1,422]

I don't know why everyone thinks Hennigan can turn around and trade gordon for Rudy gay or something like that.

Ummm. What are you talking about? It is literally the polar opposite of my post. My suggestion is to trade our vets to acquire picks and prospects to let our current prospects (e.g. Gordon) play.

[Franchero MVP 391]

Ummm. What are you talking about? It is literally the polar opposite of my post. My suggestion is to trade our vets to acquire picks and prospects to let our current prospects (e.g. Gordon) play.

 

Yeah and he saying that Rob can not just do that by himself he needs approval from the higher-ups

[Justin Jaudon 221]

So that defensive identity is gone again. Please fire this guy. Fire him. Just fire him. At least then we'll have a new GM to tell us all what we want to hear, and give us hope. Maybe he'll even be competent. Maybe it will work next time. But clearly Rob is not the guy. He tried to build the 2004 Detroit Pistons in 2016, except he went for the bargain bin version of every single player. That is not the guy we want running an NBA franchise.

[Miller4Prez66 545]

So that defensive identity is gone again. Please fire this guy. Fire him. Just fire him. At least then we'll have a new GM to tell us all what we want to hear, and give us hope. Maybe he'll even be competent. Maybe it will work next time. But clearly Rob is not the guy. He tried to build the 2004 Detroit Pistons in 2016, except he went for the bargain bin version of every single player. That is not the guy we want running an NBA franchise.

 

No, we need another 10 games to decide how mediocre (at best) this team is!

 

:panicworker:

[the notorious S.A.C. 89]

That's not how front offices work. This isn't like video games. Gms don't get to throw money around as they see fit. They have to get approval for every move with the exception of end of bench minimum guys.

[/quote

 

Approval? You mean Mr. Hair Tonic or the drunk dialer? Approval is a rubber stamp around here it seems with no desire to make it a championship caliber team unless another Shaq/Penny/Dwight drops into your lap. If they dont luck out on a star the MO around here is to make it as cheap as possible until they luck out. RDV as much as he is a wonderful person quit calling the shots around here long ago (if ever). Martins/Bob V just smile and collect the family money (although BVDW isnt collecting much anymore). As Ive said many times anyone who would sit there and watch Otis and potentially this GM run it into the ground needs to go too. Hopefully ownership sees all the empty seats and unsold popcorn and gets a clue. The product we have on the floor is at best uninspiring and quite frankly not worth the time or hard earned money of the hard core Magic fans. The team and product are boring and bad....its time to clean house but start at the top this time.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

That's not how front offices work. This isn't like video games. Gms don't get to throw money around as they see fit. They have to get approval for every move with the exception of end of bench minimum guys.

 

Approval? You mean Mr. Hair Tonic or the drunk dialer? Approval is a rubber stamp around here it seems with no desire to make it a championship caliber team unless another Shaq/Penny/Dwight drops into your lap. If they dont luck out on a star the MO around here is to make it as cheap as possible until they luck out. RDV as much as he is a wonderful person quit calling the shots around here long ago (if ever). Martins/Bob V just smile and collect the family money (although BVDW isnt collecting much anymore). As Ive said many times anyone who would sit there and watch Otis and potentially this GM run it into the ground needs to go too. Hopefully ownership sees all the empty seats and unsold popcorn and gets a clue. The product we have on the floor is at best uninspiring and quite frankly not worth the time or hard earned money of the hard core Magic fans. The team and product are boring and bad....its time to clean house but start at the top this time.

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree. The corporate side of the magic has no idea what it takes to build a basketball team. I've been told the only reason Martins is still at the top has to do with the non-basketball parts of his job (i.e. the business deals that have nothing to do with the basketball part of the franchise).

 

But I don't know what you expect as an alternative to Hennigan. I don't see a path to a good team that uses alternative choices. The new CBA is set up to encourage players to stay with their own teams. Draft picks aren't being traded as often because for good teams they're cheap contracts. For bad teams they're lifelines. Teams aren't dealing with cap space hell with the jump in cap space so there's limited options for Harden situations. The proliferation of the NBA is leading to star players learning that they can stay in small markets instead of pushing for trades to build their brand.

 

The only way to build a team now is through the draft. That requires a commitment to being bad.

[Magicman28 295]

I don't necessarily disagree. The corporate side of the magic has no idea what it takes to build a basketball team. I've been told the only reason Martins is still at the top has to do with the non-basketball parts of his job (i.e. the business deals that have nothing to do with the basketball part of the franchise).

 

But I don't know what you expect as an alternative to Hennigan. I don't see a path to a good team that uses alternative choices. The new CBA is set up to encourage players to stay with their own teams. Draft picks aren't being traded as often because for good teams they're cheap contracts. For bad teams they're lifelines. Teams aren't dealing with cap space hell with the jump in cap space so there's limited options for Harden situations. The proliferation of the NBA is leading to star players learning that they can stay in small markets instead of pushing for trades to build their brand.

 

The only way to build a team now is through the draft. That requires a commitment to being bad.

 

 

So let's tank roll this ***** then!

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

So let's tank roll this ***** then!

 

I agree in a vacuum. but we need to commit to a direction.

 

EDIT: and trying to out-tank philly, Brooklyn, and dallas doesn't seem possible this year.

[og magic fan 43]

I agree in a vacuum. but we need to commit to a direction.

 

EDIT: and trying to out-tank philly, Brooklyn, and dallas doesn't seem possible this year.

 

 

Yeah you can't out-tank those teams this year. Maybe a team like Minnesota if they get a top five pick would be open to a package that would bring them more defense to fit Thibs system. As far as next year I believe we should at least give ourselves a shot at drafting Ayton in 2018. Then in 2019 have our own pick and hopefully the lakers.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

I agree in a vacuum. but we need to commit to a direction.

 

EDIT: and trying to out-tank philly, Brooklyn, and dallas doesn't seem possible this year.

 

You don't have to out-tank Philly, Brooklyn, and Dallas. Cleveland didn't out-tank us for the 1st picks in '13 or '14. And more importantly, that isn't the point. The point, as you said, is the direction. We need to go for low picks and good scouting. We need to commit to developing young guys, as well, but the right young guys (which ties into scouting). A large portion of the best players in the league came from tanking for the worst pick, yes. LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, James Harden, Kyrie Irving, etc... top three picks. But another, and equally as important, large portion are not top three picks: Steph Curry, Paul George, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Damian Lillard, etc.

 

It is a bad idea to be mediocre. rarely can you build a team with picks in the 10-15 range. But the majority of good teams in both the East and West are build around guys from the 4-10 range or even later.

 

1-3 range - East: Cavs, Knicks, Bucks*; West: Warriors*, Spurs*, Rockets, Clippers, Thunder, Jazz*

* indicates team that is actually built around 4-10 (or even later) range guys, but also get major contributions from 1-3 guys as well.

 

4-10 range - East: Raptors, Hornets, Pacers, Bulls; West: Warriors, Grizzlies, Blazers, Jazz

 

11-undrafted range - East: Celtics, Bucks; West: Warriors, Spurs, Grizzlies,

 

What do we learn from that? First, that the Warriors are ridiculous; they have top players from every category, and it's just not fair to everyone else. Secondly, of the teams competing for the title this year (Cavs, Warriors, Spurs, and I'll allow for Rockets, Clippers, and Raptors), there are just as many essential, building-block players from outside the top three.

 

I bring all this up because it is not that Rob failed to tank hard enough, or that we should seek a GM who can tank better than Rob. The idea is to bring in a GM who is capable of tanking AND scouting AND managing the team.

 

Rob was good but not great at tanking. We were bad, but not the worst team in the league, for most of our tanking years.

 

Rob has been hit-and-miss on scouting. Dipo was a good choice, as was (I still think, anyway) Gordon. Mario has been a definite bust. Payton is not exactly a bust, but neither is he an inspiring pick (we was the tenth pick, and a really solid sixth man is about average for that range).

 

Rob has been terrible at managing the team. Money-wise, he's not been too bad. He probably overpaid for Biz and Augustin, and he gave low-impact but still bad contracts to Watson and Frye, two guys who didn't even play up to the small contracts they got. But he hasn't crippled the franchise with un-tradeable bad contracts, so he's not Otis. But in building a team, he has been horrid. He started off with a philosophy of letting the young guys play, and it's unsurprising that the ones who seem to be playing at least close to their draft potential (Dipo/Vuc/Harris/maybe Payton) are the ones who were allowed to play early on in the rebuild. But then he switched philosophies, and now two of the 3 low draft picks (Gordon/Mario) are struggling . Oh, and half of those guys who were allowed to develop early on have been traded, one for, essentially, the right to slightly overpay Biz. The result has been that we are left with a team with one really solid vet starter (Ibaka) who is what he is, two one-dimensional starters (Biz and Fournier) who are what they are, two decently developed players best used as the 6th and 7th men (Payton and Vuc), and two low draft picks who are "not as far along as we thought" (Gordon/Mario).

 

The point to all this is that Rob's direction has been wrong. He didn't draft particularly well, he didn't develop the right players once he drafted them, and he overestimated or misunderstood the guys he was committed to.