2016-2017 Season Discussion Thread

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I think if, hypothetically, we had this team with Saric in Gordon's place and philly had Gordon in Saric's place both teams would be worse. Because we've tried to run the offense through Gordon and it results in him going 1-7 from three and taking a bunch of ill advised shots. At this point of his career he can't do that. He's a matchup exploitation guy, not a run the offense guy.

 

But I think Saric on the magic would also make us worse. because he's basically doing the exact same thing as vucevic. You cant really play them together.

 

So in the long term I'd rather have Gordon. because I think, ultimately, Saric ends up in the same place as Vucevic. You have to bet he becomes an elite offensive player, basically a better version of Kevin Love, or else your team has built itself a natural ceiling.

 

Gordon is easier to project onto a better team because he does more off ball stuff. I don't think a simmons-saric-embiid lineup will work.

[hootie249 293]

I think if, hypothetically, we had this team with Saric in Gordon's place and philly had Gordon in Saric's place both teams would be worse. Because we've tried to run the offense through Gordon and it results in him going 1-7 from three and taking a bunch of ill advised shots. At this point of his career he can't do that. He's a matchup exploitation guy, not a run the offense guy.

 

But I think Saric on the magic would also make us worse. because he's basically doing the exact same thing as vucevic. You cant really play them together.

 

So in the long term I'd rather have Gordon. because I think, ultimately, Saric ends up in the same place as Vucevic. You have to bet he becomes an elite offensive player, basically a better version of Kevin Love, or else your team has built itself a natural ceiling.

 

Gordon is easier to project onto a better team because he does more off ball stuff. I don't think a simmons-saric-embiid lineup will work.

 

I think it's going to work great. I think the problem people see is when they are on the floor Simmons and Saric won't be able to guard the other teams faster 3's or the other teams bigger 4's. Offensively Embiid and Saric take the pressure off Simmons to shoot, which he is not good at yet. However by all accounts he is a naturally gifted ball handler and is supposed to be the next great passing big man.

Hopefully the Sixers wait and see how they play together, but with Colangelo running the show who knows!

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I think it's going to work great. I think the problem people see is when they are on the floor Simmons and Saric won't be able to guard the other teams faster 3's or the other teams bigger 4's. Offensively Embiid and Saric take the pressure off Simmons to shoot, which he is not good at yet. However by all accounts he is a naturally gifted ball handler and is supposed to be the next great passing big man.

Hopefully the Sixers wait and see how they play together, but with Colangelo running the show who knows!

 

You can't run the offense through saric and Simmons. Same issue as what we have with Payton and Fournier.

 

And saric and embiid operate in the same space like vucevic and ibaka.

[Soul Bro 1,421]

Have to wonder how Gordon and his agent feel about the Magic right now. Isn't he supposed to be our core player? Lol. What if you found out your company was thinking of shipping you out? And for what it's worth, I'd much rather have AG than Saric.

[Soul Bro 1,421]

I hate the 5 years reason when 3 of those years the main objective was to suck and then in year 4 Martins and Devos decide to micromanage and facilitate Skiles coming here.

Henny hung himself over the past two summers declaring he expected the team to compete for the playoffs. Plus, with no cohesive core via the rebuild process, there's little to believe that this team will be competitive even a year or two from now.

[HeHateMe 697]

Have to wonder how Gordon and his agent feel about the Magic right now. Isn't he supposed to be our core player? Lol. What if you found out your company was thinking of shipping you out? And for what it's worth, I'd much rather have AG than Saric.

 

Why wouldn't you consider shipping out 1 played for a better player?

 

It's pathetic and embarrassing it leaked but any GM who doesn't exhaust all options on every player in hopes to obtain a better player isn't doing their job.

[magicblue 315]

Why wouldn't you consider shipping out 1 played for a better player?

 

It's pathetic and embarrassing it leaked but any GM who doesn't exhaust all options on every player in hopes to obtain a better player isn't doing their job.

 

When did Saric become the better player? Did I miss something? Saric is better at some things (i.e.shooting, passing) but AG is the far superior defender and has a much higher ceiling

[Murphy13 185]

When did Saric become the better player? Did I miss something? Saric is better at some things (i.e.shooting, passing) but AG is the far superior defender and has a much higher ceiling

 

The metrics actually show that Saric is the better defender. Drating, DWS, DBPM, all of them favor Saric. I don't think AG is necessarily a worse defender myself, but his defensive ability is overrated by us (largely). I do think that AG has to have a higher ceiling though.

[magicdoc1 261]

Why? Did he take the picture? Was he the one who posted it? How do you know he was even there? He doesn't have to be.

 

It really isn't as huge as a deal as you're making it out to be. It's a generalized, itemized, list of players that everyone knows will be available in FA and trades. Not specific targets.

Who is making a huge deal out of this? Im just saying that it looks bad. When you see this on ESPN and hear sport radios across the country discussing it, it makes it a big deal and another blow to the organization and players involved.

The Manager is in charge of all moves happening in the front office whether he is there or not. It is on him.

When it comes to specific targets. Well... there is a big one out there involving AG.

A competent GM should not allow people to get into that room unless you are there. That is why I think he was there for the signing. Or he is truly that incompetent. Either way, he needs to go.

[magicdoc1 261]

The standard response is commenting on it. see the cowboys every year when their draft board gets leaked.

Nah. We are not the Cowboys and they are not commenting on it. They are mocking us and having fun doing it. And with reason.

Is the history. We are just not in a very good position to look worse as an organization if we plan to attract decent free agents in the future.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

The metrics actually show that Saric is the better defender. Drating, DWS, DBPM, all of them favor Saric. I don't think AG is necessarily a worse defender myself, but his defensive ability is overrated by us (largely). I do think that AG has to have a higher ceiling though.

 

That's because those numbers don't reflect individual defensive performance and they're all pretty much derivatives of the same calculation on basketball reference.

 

for the season we have philly's defensive rating as a team at 105.9. While Saric is on the court it's 106.8 and when he's off the court it's 104.9. So philly plays better defense when Saric is on the bench. if we sort it just by post all star, the numbers are 106.8 team, 107.8 on court, 104.8 off court.

 

Gordon's numbers with the magic are 107.6 total, 107.5 on, 107.8 off for the season. Post all star its 108.7 team, 106.6 on, 112.7 off. so you're getting some improvement there.

 

But this is just one metric which means nothing and it's sometimes difficult to remove that from typical rotations. lets add some more context to it.

 

http://on.nba.com/2kFpG55

 

Gordon is the best on ball defender on our team. guys shoot 3.3% worse when Gordon is defending them than they do usually. Lebron is at -3.7, Dwight and crowder are at -3.8, Jimmy butler is at -2.5.

 

saric is at +0.2. so he's about average to slightly below average.

 

Gordon is also the best rim protector on our team. guys shoot 51.6% at the rim. Saric is actually slightly better at this at 49.5

 

http://on.nba.com/2je67mU

 

However, Gordon is a significantly better perimeter defender. Guys shoot 33.2% when defended by Gordon on the three point line. Guys shoot 37.2% from three when Saric is defending.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

And here's clips of Gordon shutting down Harden and Lillard

 

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2017/02/02/aaron-gordon-is-a-defensive-3-at-least/

 

Also:

 

Here are some impressive numbers when AG is the closest defender this season:

 

Carmelo Anthony: 17 shots, 29.4 percent shooting, 19 feet average shot distance

Gordon Hayward: 6 shots, 33 percent shooting, 18 feet average shot distance

James Harden: 6 shots, 19.5 feet average shot distance

Paul George: 8 shots, 0 percent shooting, 17.4 feet average shot distance

Damian Lillard: 5 shots, 0 percent shooting, 16.2 feet average shot distance

 

with more clips http://www.nba.com/magic/news/film-room-aaron-gordons-exceptional-defense-giannis-antetokounmpo-cohen-20170121