2016-2017 Season Discussion Thread

[Murphy13 185]

Your judgement has become so clouded past few months.

[HeHateMe 697]

Your judgement has become so clouded past few months.

 

Me? Or the guy who lets meaningless triple doubles in losing efforts in March convince him Payton can be a good starting NBA PG still.

 

Yet this same guy says AG's DWS & OWS from last year don't matter because we won meaningless games last March that bloated it.

 

Again, stop talking to me like I'm your wife.

[JJZFL 620]

No. You'd just leave teams in purgatory.

 

If you're dead set on stopping tanking just get rid of the draft and rookie scale contracts entirely. Put rookies straight into the free agency pool.

 

 

Again, this implies that the only way teams have to get out of "purgatory" is to tank for good draft picks. The very fact that people can't seem to imagine anything else is one of the strongest arguments for unlinking the draft order from won-loss records.

 

Bad teams would still have a chance of getting good draft picks, the same chance as everyone else. You would no longer be able to focus on luck in the draft as being your main strategy, though, which to my mind would be a huge improvement.

 

Putting rookies into the free agent pool would accomplish the same thing, but at great cost. All professional sports have a draft which allows teams to develop young players at less cost. The draft order is what I was discussing, not the concept of a draft. The two issues aren't really related.

[Odin 137]

Again, this implies that the only way teams have to get out of "purgatory" is to tank for good draft picks. The very fact that people can't seem to imagine anything else is one of the strongest arguments for unlinking the draft order from won-loss records.

 

Bad teams would still have a chance of getting good draft picks, the same chance as everyone else. You would no longer be able to focus on luck in the draft as being your main strategy, though, which to my mind would be a huge improvement.

 

Putting rookies into the free agent pool would accomplish the same thing, but at great cost. All professional sports have a draft which allows teams to develop young players at less cost. The draft order is what I was discussing, not the concept of a draft. The two issues aren't really related.

 

You are also almost completely sucking out hope for teams that are bad. Currently, fans of teams that are bad can at least think to themselves "well this team sucks, but we should be in a position to draft a good player who can help us change our fate". If everyone had the same chances, then there is a good chance an already very good team would get one of the top picks. It is also very possible that this player would not get the playing time needed to fully develop (I think it is good to give a player with a lot of potential a lot of playing time, even on a bad team, rather than leaving him sitting on the bench).

 

I agree that tanking should be discouraged, but, at the same time, fans of all teams need that hope that, even if they are bad now, they have a chance later.

 

What is your solution for getting teams out of team purgatory or team hell then? unlinking them will only stick teams like the magic even further down into the hole.

[JJZFL 620]

You are also almost completely sucking out hope for teams that are bad. Currently, fans of teams that are bad can at least think to themselves "well this team sucks, but we should be in a position to draft a good player who can help us change our fate". If everyone had the same chances, then there is a good chance an already very good team would get one of the top picks. It is also very possible that this player would not get the playing time needed to fully develop (I think it is good to give a player with a lot of potential a lot of playing time, even on a bad team, rather than leaving him sitting on the bench).

 

I agree that tanking should be discouraged, but, at the same time, fans of all teams need that hope that, even if they are bad now, they have a chance later.

 

What is your solution for getting teams out of team purgatory or team hell then? unlinking them will only stick teams like the magic even further down into the hole.

 

Debatable. It takes hope away from the current season, because if you're tanking, fans have no reason to watch any of the games or to root for the team. It transfers this hope to some point in the future, if you're lucky enough to get a good enough player in the draft to turn around the lousy team you built on purpose. I dislike the whole concept.

 

Again, you're only "completely sucking out hope for teams that are bad" if tanking is the only way to turn around bad teams. The fact that so many people seem to take this for granted is again a great reason to get rid of the current system. Make teams actually strategize about ways to improve, and try really hard to find overlooked players, and not base everything on "losing for luck".

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Again, this implies that the only way teams have to get out of "purgatory" is to tank for good draft picks. The very fact that people can't seem to imagine anything else is one of the strongest arguments for unlinking the draft order from won-loss records.

 

Bad teams would still have a chance of getting good draft picks, the same chance as everyone else. You would no longer be able to focus on luck in the draft as being your main strategy, though, which to my mind would be a huge improvement.

 

Putting rookies into the free agent pool would accomplish the same thing, but at great cost. All professional sports have a draft which allows teams to develop young players at less cost. The draft order is what I was discussing, not the concept of a draft. The two issues aren't really related.

 

international soccer doesn't have a draft.

 

the only way for teams to get out of purgatory in the current salary structure is through the draft. There is literally no other repeatable plan. The NBA gutted free agency when they continued to provide avenues for players to stay with their team.

 

Brooklyn is the perfect example of why you're always wrong. They have no incentive to be bad. They REALLY tried to obtain the most talent they possibly could and they're still terrible. They tried overpaying to obtain young talent on restricted free agent contracts. those were matched. They overpaid for interesting role players like Jeremy Lin and Booker who could do some things but not provide wins. They cant attract a big name free agent because there are always other more attractive options.

[JJZFL 620]

international soccer doesn't have a draft.

 

the only way for teams to get out of purgatory in the current salary structure is through the draft. There is literally no other repeatable plan. The NBA gutted free agency when they continued to provide avenues for players to stay with their team.

 

Brooklyn is the perfect example of why you're always wrong. They have no incentive to be bad. They REALLY tried to obtain the most talent they possibly could and they're still terrible. They tried overpaying to obtain young talent on restricted free agent contracts. those were matched. They overpaid for interesting role players like Jeremy Lin and Booker who could do some things but not provide wins. They cant attract a big name free agent because there are always other more attractive options.

 

So you use one example to show I'm "always wrong". By that logic, you're also always wrong, because look how well the tanking strategy has worked for us over the past 5 years.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

So you use one example to show I'm "always wrong". By that logic, you're also always wrong, because look how well the tanking strategy has worked for us over the past 5 years.

 

we haven't drafted an all star yet.

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

So you use one example to show I'm "always wrong". By that logic, you're also always wrong, because look how well the tanking strategy has worked for us over the past 5 years.

 

 

To be fair we can't say we fully committed to tanking for all 5 years.

[Odin 137]

international soccer doesn't have a draft.

 

the only way for teams to get out of purgatory in the current salary structure is through the draft. There is literally no other repeatable plan. The NBA gutted free agency when they continued to provide avenues for players to stay with their team.

 

Brooklyn is the perfect example of why you're always wrong. They have no incentive to be bad. They REALLY tried to obtain the most talent they possibly could and they're still terrible. They tried overpaying to obtain young talent on restricted free agent contracts. those were matched. They overpaid for interesting role players like Jeremy Lin and Booker who could do some things but not provide wins. They cant attract a big name free agent because there are always other more attractive options.

 

European football is only interesting because of the Champion's cup. Almost every country is dominated by 2-3 teams that win every single year (In the 24 years of the Premier League's existence, only 6 teams have gotten the championship, 13 of which went to Manchester United. La Liga has had 5 teams win the championship in that timeframe, 12 to Barcelona and 7 to Real Madrid. In that same time span there have been 10 different teams in the NBA who have won the championship, the most which went to San Antonio and the Lakers at 5 each)

 

The only thing that teams at the bottom can really hope for in European football is that they don't get kicked down to the lower leagues. That just seems a bit depressing to me. While I know our system is a bit flawed, I much prefer it to the national soccer scene in European football.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

European football is only interesting because of the Champion's cup. Almost every country is dominated by 2-3 teams that win every single year (In the 24 years of the Premier League's existence, only 6 teams have gotten the championship, 13 of which went to Manchester United. La Liga has had 5 teams win the championship in that timeframe, 12 to Barcelona and 7 to Real Madrid. In that same time span there have been 10 different teams in the NBA who have won the championship, the most which went to San Antonio and the Lakers at 5 each)

 

The only thing that teams at the bottom can really hope for in European football is that they don't get kicked down to the lower leagues. That just seems a bit depressing to me. While I know our system is a bit flawed, I much prefer it to the national soccer scene in European football.

 

well sure but I think that has more to do with the lack of salary cap than a draft.

 

The answer to fixing tanking isn't giving everyone an equal chance at the number one pick. the answer to fixing tanking is to give everyone the opportunity to sign the top player. If the lakers have the cap space to sign Lonzo Ball outright and you know Ball wants to go there then just sign him. don't fake compete.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

fwiw I just used a random number generator.

 

our hopes for the future are noel, gary harris, sam dekker, dragan bender, and the 25th pick in this upcoming draft. drew the 6, 19, 18, 4, and 25 draft slots.

 

second attempt was weird. 26, 21, 24, 29, 1