2017 NBA Draft Thread

[Murphy13 185]

Gordon does more off ball and is more athletic. Martin was post/midrange. Martin was a traditional 4 in the same mold as like Elton brand or chris webber. Gordon does more in today's nba.

 

I'm not sure if you are adequately recalling what KMART did in his early early days. I don't think AG was more athletic believe it or not.

[JJZFL 623]

and he's continuously gotten better.

 

It's not like oladipo where we've said "look! he shot 40% from 3 for a month! as he gets more experience he'll do that more often!"

 

his sophomore year he went for 7.7 and 6.1 pre all star. Then 12 and 7.3 post all star.

last year he went 11.2 and 4.6 pre all star. Then 16.4 and 6.2 post all star.

 

and I guess maybe he's a 16.4 and 6 or 7 guy but he's still only 21. we wont know for a couple more years.

Maybe he got better in the last quarter of last year compared to the rest of the year. I would argue that a lot of teams aren't taking all the games seriously at that point in the year, so you have to be careful with that comparison. But regardless, it's hard to argue that he was better year over year compared to the previous season. With an extra 450 minutes of playing time, his 3-point %, overall shooting %, blocks, and rebounds all went down. His turnovers were significantly up. Now I'm sure people will argue that his declines were all because he was playing out of position. Even if you buy that argument, it's hard to say that he "got better" last year. At best you have an excuse for why he didn't.

[Magicman28 295]

Maybe he got better in the last quarter of last year compared to the rest of the year. I would argue that a lot of teams aren't taking all the games seriously at that point in the year, so you have to be careful with that comparison. But regardless, it's hard to argue that he was better year over year compared to the previous season. With an extra 450 minutes of playing time, his 3-point %, overall shooting %, blocks, and rebounds all went down. His turnovers were significantly up. Now I'm sure people will argue that his declines were all because he was playing out of position. Even if you buy that argument, it's hard to say that he "got better" last year. At best you have an excuse for why he didn't.

 

 

Are you saying you don't buy it?

[JJZFL 623]

Are you saying you don't buy it?

 

I don't know. I don't think that playing the four would have made his 3-point shooting better, for example. It probably would have helped his rebounding, though, so I probably buy parts of it.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I don't know. I don't think that playing the four would have made his 3-point shooting better, for example. It probably would have helped his rebounding, though, so I probably buy parts of it.

 

His three point shooting was about the same. But he took fewer and got to the rim more. So his fg% went up

[Tank Vogel 191]

Im curious to how he shot 84% FT in 24 games on more attempts

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

His three point shooting was about the same. But he took fewer and got to the rim more. So his fg% went up

 

I'm not seeing the stats to back up your argument unless you mean post all star is his benchmark.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I'm not seeing the stats to back up your argument unless you mean post all star is his benchmark.

 

That's what i mean

[Murphy13 185]

His minutes, FGA, FGM, and PPG have gone up. Those all directly correlate to each other, it's not entirely clear if he has gotten better or if his role just got larger. Either way, the rest of his stuff stagnated or declined despite more minutes. I see this upcoming season as being his best individual season, ie biggest jump in production, so I look forward to seeing what it is he can do. He is closer to the 'he is who he is' category than someone like Payton-whom has legitimately improved his game each season (without the cover of playing time-which has decreased if anything due to skepticism) or Hezonja-whom has had little chance to show much of anything, though admittedly hasn't shown much period.

 

If Isaac gets the green light, some of his minutes are going to come from AG, unless AG really breaks out.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

His minutes, FGA, FGM, and PPG have gone up. Those all directly correlate to each other, it's not entirely clear if he has gotten better or if his role just got larger. Either way, the rest of his stuff stagnated or declined despite more minutes. I see this upcoming season as being his best individual season, ie biggest jump in production, so I look forward to seeing what it is he can do. He is closer to the 'he is who he is' category than someone like Payton-whom has legitimately improved his game each season (without the cover of playing time-which has decreased if anything due to skepticism) or Hezonja-whom has had little chance to show much of anything, though admittedly hasn't shown much period.

 

If Isaac gets the green light, some of his minutes are going to come from AG, unless AG really breaks out.

 

it's 2017. you could just look at his per minute values (which have all gone up) or his per possession values (which have also all gone up).

 

and his 2pt% went from 50% rookie year to 53% sophomore year, dropped significantly when he was playing SF, then jumped up to 57.6% when he moved back to 4.

 

and nobody is saying Payton hasn't improved. They're dubious of betting on a point guard that can't play defense and can't shoot as it appears you need your point guard to do one of those things to win.

[Magicman28 295]

it's 2017. you could just look at his per minute values (which have all gone up) or his per possession values (which have also all gone up).

 

and his 2pt% went from 50% rookie year to 53% sophomore year, dropped significantly when he was playing SF, then jumped up to 57.6% when he moved back to 4.

 

and nobody is saying Payton hasn't improved. They're dubious of betting on a point guard that can't play defense and can't shoot as it appears you need your point guard to do one of those things to win.

 

 

Right and I'd be alright with Payton if he hustles his tail off and play d but having a combo of not playing defense and not being able to shoot is why i wanted DSJ.

 

I like Isaac and I think he can be great if he puts in the work but our PG spot is atrocious.

[Murphy13 185]

it's 2017. you could just look at his per minute values (which have all gone up) or his per possession values (which have also all gone up).

 

and his 2pt% went from 50% rookie year to 53% sophomore year, dropped significantly when he was playing SF, then jumped up to 57.6% when he moved back to 4.

 

and nobody is saying Payton hasn't improved. They're dubious of betting on a point guard that can't play defense and can't shoot as it appears you need your point guard to do one of those things to win.

 

He has improved his overall offensive repertoire slightly since coming into the league, sure, but that's it. The stats you mention in addition are a byproduct of just being on the floor more and taking more shots. It might be 2017 but what I said was still correct and doesn't take away from the point.

 

The notion that Payton can't play D is either false or taken completely out of context. If he truly can't play D then neither can AG, because he's no worse than AG, adjusted for position. If Payton somehow became a 38% + 3pt shooter then he would probably be an allstar. The cognitive dissonance of this board disallows AG's production to be effectively compared to that of Payton or any other situation based in reality really. One gets praise for being elite the other gets offered up in exchange for career backups.