Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted September 7, 2016 [/size]http://bballbreakdow...g-aaron-gordon/ yeah, the problem with this is it still uses statistics based around Harris-Gordon lineups where Gordon was weirdly considered to be the SF. Gordon looked good in Gordon Nicholson lineups where he was playing sf. There's some reason for optimism that Gordon would be able to have success in a similar lineup with Ibaka at PF especially with the defensive improvement you get from inserting ibaka in for Nicholson. Gordon-Nicholson-dedmon lineups were successful so maybe a Gordon-ibaka-biyombo lineup could also succeed. but I think a Gordon-green-vucevic or a Gordon-green biyombo lineup wouldn't work well based on what we saw from Gordon-harris-vucevic lineups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Odin 137 Report post Posted September 7, 2016 yeah, the problem with this is it still uses statistics based around Harris-Gordon lineups where Gordon was weirdly considered to be the SF. Gordon looked good in Gordon Nicholson lineups where he was playing sf. There's some reason for optimism that Gordon would be able to have success in a similar lineup with Ibaka at PF especially with the defensive improvement you get from inserting ibaka in for Nicholson. Gordon-Nicholson-dedmon lineups were successful so maybe a Gordon-ibaka-biyombo lineup could also succeed. but I think a Gordon-green-vucevic or a Gordon-green biyombo lineup wouldn't work well based on what we saw from Gordon-harris-vucevic lineups. And these things can always change, especially for a young player. Such analysis is much less meaningful for a young player who is still developing than it is for a veteran as their skills are still improving. This type of analysis is the type of analysis that sees our playing of Oladipo at PG when a rookie as an abject failure, because of Stats, when playing there probably helped him out a lot. It made him more comfortable on the ball, improved his dribbling, his passing, his court vision (I know some might disagree on that one), and his ability to run an offense. While he certainly did not turn into a PG as we hoped he may, he became a much more well rounded, acting as a good second ball handler/ sometimes PG to take advantage of match ups. Same with Gordon. Might playing him as SF not be the correct position at the end of the day? Yes, but playing there could also improve what makes him so tantalizing at PF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted September 7, 2016 And these things can always change, especially for a young player. Such analysis is much less meaningful for a young player who is still developing than it is for a veteran as their skills are still improving. This type of analysis is the type of analysis that sees our playing of Oladipo at PG when a rookie as an abject failure, because of Stats, when playing there probably helped him out a lot. It made him more comfortable on the ball, improved his dribbling, his passing, his court vision (I know some might disagree on that one), and his ability to run an offense. While he certainly did not turn into a PG as we hoped he may, he became a much more well rounded, acting as a good second ball handler/ sometimes PG to take advantage of match ups. Same with Gordon. Might playing him as SF not be the correct position at the end of the day? Yes, but playing there could also improve what makes him so tantalizing at PF. I don't really think SF Gordon is going to play all that different than PF Gordon. The main argument is Gordon's strength is a quick first step and ball handling. Matched up against Bosh and it's an asset. Matched up against Justice Winslow and it's not as much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted September 7, 2016 I don't really think SF Gordon is going to play all that different than PF Gordon. The main argument is Gordon's strength is a quick first step and ball handling. Matched up against Bosh and it's an asset. Matched up against Justice Winslow and it's not as much. AG could just post up Winslow. That's why I like him at the 3 now (after initially against it). I think it'll just make him an better player in the long run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted September 7, 2016 AG could just post up Winslow. That's why I like him at the 3 now (after initially against it). I think it'll just make him an better player in the long run. Yeah, I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Odin 137 Report post Posted September 7, 2016 AG could just post up Winslow. That's why I like him at the 3 now (after initially against it). I think it'll just make him an better player in the long run. Not sure I see him posting people up, but I think there is a good chance we see him handling the ball more and having to tighten up some things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted September 7, 2016 There's definitely some concerns but there's reason to believe its going to work. http://stats.nba.com/league/lineups/#!/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*Gordon%7CGROUP_NAME*E*Nicholson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted September 7, 2016 Schmitz Magic camp invitees: Nick Johnson, Kevin Murphy, Branden Dawson, Cliff Alexander, Arinze Onuaka, Damjan Rudez. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted September 8, 2016 Not sure I see him posting people up, but I think there is a good chance we see him handling the ball more and having to tighten up some things. Agree totally with the latter but as his career advances, I think it would be worth it if he added it to his repertoire. Especially since he is going to handle the ball and passing more at the 3 spot. Use his size and skill against smaller defenders (like Winslow) in the post. Double comes, he'll be able to find Mario, Fournier, Ibaka, and Vuch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Boss 129 Report post Posted September 8, 2016 I agree that if we are going to play AG at the 3, him adding a post up game to his repertoire would be invaluable. He doesn't have to do it all the time, but when he has a match up he can exploit due to size difference, he should do it. Force the opposition to make changes or double teams, he's a good enough passer to not get himself into too much trouble. If his ball handling / passing / and especially shooting keep improving, having a decent post up game would be fantastic, would cause all sorts of issues with opposition trying to find a good match up for him. Like the Miami example above, imagine the starting match up is Winslow and AG can dominate him in the post a bit, it could force them to play someone like a Bosh to counter him on defence, which will allow AG to exploit Bosh with his true strengths in speed and athleticism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMagicUK 1,488 Report post Posted September 8, 2016 Schmitz Magic camp invitees: Nick Johnson, Kevin Murphy, Branden Dawson, Cliff Alexander, Arinze Onuaka, Damjan Rudez. Interesting group. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Neighborhood Bully 266 Report post Posted September 8, 2016 Nylon Calculus published their version of real plus-minus. Some interesting observations: 1. Only Gordon, Oladipo, and Vucevic had a net positive rating. 2. Hezonja's defense was so bad he was ranked as our worst player, edging out Marble and Watson. 3. Payton was ranked .1 positive on offense, but -2.1 on defense. 4. Fournier was ranked 1.2 positive on offense, but -1.8 on defense. http://nyloncalculus...inus-2015-2016/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
