The Official 2015-2016 Trade Thread

[Justin Jaudon 221]

You need to compare the rosters.

 

I have compared the rosters. I mentioned the respective rosters in my post. But for the fun of it, let's all take a look:

 

Derrick Rose>George Hill. Not by as much as he used to be, but he's still the better player.

Tony Snell<Monta Ellis. Barely at this point, but for the same reason Rose is better than Hill, Ellis is better than Snell.

Taj Gibson>Jordan Hill. This is almost a wash, but Gibson is a better team defender and much better shot blocker.

Pau Gasol>>>>Ian Mahinmi. Pau is probably the most underrated player of our time. He is still an all-star caliber big, who makes others better.

 

Let's take a look at the lesser played guys:

Hinrich=Stuckey. Could not be more of a wash at this point.

Mirotic>>Allen. This isn't even close, regardless of Mirotic playing hurt. He's playing, and considerably better than Lavoy Allen.

Brooks>>Young. Aaron Brooks is considerably better than Joseph Young, without argument.

McDermott<Hill/Budinger. This is pretty close, but I'll give it to Solomon Hill/Chase Budinger for argument's sake.

Portis<Turner. It's close, really. Turner is a better scorer and much better shot blocker, but Portis is a better rebounder and passer, and he streches the floor better.

 

To me, it boils down to this: Butler plays with another all-star caliber player, plus he has a slightly better supporting group, even considering the injuries the Bulls have suffered. George has no other player capable of taking over a game, mostly just a bunch of solid role players. He has to be on every night, or they lose. His team has no real power forward worth talking about. The bench lacks enough floor-stretchers. They have a lot of problems. Basically, they are below average at every position except starting Small Forward, and maybe starting Point Guard. The Bulls have an average starting PG, below average starting SF, an average starting PF, an all-star caliber C, and an average bench. If Butler is a superstar, that team is competitive in the East, not barely holding on to a .500 record.

 

I like Butler. I think he's a great player. I'd give up any player on our roster, with a pick and some filler, to get Jimmy Butler. I wouldn't give up two core players and a pick and filler for him. I would for Paul George. I'd have to think about it, but Paul George has proved it by now, he's a superstar.

[Mack1085 57]

 

To me, it boils down to this: Butler plays with another all-star caliber player, plus he has a slightly better supporting group, even considering the injuries the Bulls have suffered. George has no other player capable of taking over a game, mostly just a bunch of solid role players. He has to be on every night, or they lose. His team has no real power forward worth talking about. The bench lacks enough floor-stretchers. They have a lot of problems. Basically, they are below average at every position except starting Small Forward, and maybe starting Point Guard. The Bulls have an average starting PG, below average starting SF, an average starting PF, an all-star caliber C, and an average bench. If Butler is a superstar, that team is competitive in the East, not barely holding on to a .500 record.

 

 

If we're going to analyze the rosters, it's probably worth pointing out that Paul George has the 11th highest usage rate in the league while Derrick Rose's usage rate is actually higher than Butler's. Paul George (and the 3rd best coach in the league Frank Vogel) deserve enormous credit for the success of that team. But I'm not sure it's fair to dock Jimmy Butler for the Bulls' lack of success this season when a player with 12.51 PER has the highest usage percentage on your team (Rose) and you've got a rookie NBA head coach.

[Magicman28 295]

I listed 4.

 

Detroit's core was 5 players. Utah has 5 players in their core

 

A core is just what you build around. It doesn't really mean anything. If Durant called up Hennigan and said "Hey, I'm 100% coming to Orlando in free agency and I'm bringing westbrook so clear up the roster to build around us. we're of course trading as many people as we can to take advantage of them.

 

You listed 5. What Detroit did was an anomaly. Utah!? What have they won?! Who have they've signed other than Hayward who's Harris with a consistent shot?

 

You really think that's what's going to happen? Seriously man. You know that ain't happening. Durant will sign for another year at the worse and OKC will find ways to improve the ball club. It's what winners do.

[Magicman28 295]

I have compared the rosters. I mentioned the respective rosters in my post. But for the fun of it, let's all take a look:

 

Derrick Rose>George Hill. Not by as much as he used to be, but he's still the better player.

Tony Snell<Monta Ellis. Barely at this point, but for the same reason Rose is better than Hill, Ellis is better than Snell.

Taj Gibson>Jordan Hill. This is almost a wash, but Gibson is a better team defender and much better shot blocker.

Pau Gasol>>>>Ian Mahinmi. Pau is probably the most underrated player of our time. He is still an all-star caliber big, who makes others better.

 

Let's take a look at the lesser played guys:

Hinrich=Stuckey. Could not be more of a wash at this point.

Mirotic>>Allen. This isn't even close, regardless of Mirotic playing hurt. He's playing, and considerably better than Lavoy Allen.

Brooks>>Young. Aaron Brooks is considerably better than Joseph Young, without argument.

McDermott<Hill/Budinger. This is pretty close, but I'll give it to Solomon Hill/Chase Budinger for argument's sake.

Portis<Turner. It's close, really. Turner is a better scorer and much better shot blocker, but Portis is a better rebounder and passer, and he streches the floor better.

 

To me, it boils down to this: Butler plays with another all-star caliber player, plus he has a slightly better supporting group, even considering the injuries the Bulls have suffered. George has no other player capable of taking over a game, mostly just a bunch of solid role players. He has to be on every night, or they lose. His team has no real power forward worth talking about. The bench lacks enough floor-stretchers. They have a lot of problems. Basically, they are below average at every position except starting Small Forward, and maybe starting Point Guard. The Bulls have an average starting PG, below average starting SF, an average starting PF, an all-star caliber C, and an average bench. If Butler is a superstar, that team is competitive in the East, not barely holding on to a .500 record.

 

I like Butler. I think he's a great player. I'd give up any player on our roster, with a pick and some filler, to get Jimmy Butler. I wouldn't give up two core players and a pick and filler for him. I would for Paul George. I'd have to think about it, but Paul George has proved it by now, he's a superstar.

 

It's fair to say that Butler has kept that team from being a top lottery team.

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

Derrick Rose isn't better than anybody. He's one of the worst players in the NBA, his ORTG is worse than rookie Oladipo and he has a WS/48 of .006 which lower than Shabazz Napier's. The fact that you think he's an average starter is a testament to how flawed you premise is.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

If we're going to analyze the rosters, it's probably worth pointing out that Paul George has the 11th highest usage rate in the league while Derrick Rose's usage rate is actually higher than Butler's. Paul George (and the 3rd best coach in the league Frank Vogel) deserve enormous credit for the success of that team. But I'm not sure it's fair to dock Jimmy Butler for the Bulls' lack of success this season when a player with 12.51 PER has the highest usage percentage on your team (Rose) and you've got a rookie NBA head coach.

 

I'm not docking Jimmy Butler. He's a great player. But a superstar he is not, and Rose's usage rate actually points to that. Maybe when the Bulls are ready to move on from the Ghost of Derrick Rose, he will be. But right now, he still doesn't have the standing with his own team to take over from a guy who hasn't been great in 5 years. So Butler still has a maybe to him. George doesn't anymore. Before this year, I would have said George had to earn that superstar status in my book. But he's been carrying the Pacers, an otherwise misshapen team in transition, like a superstar should, and I'm giving him the credit. Vogel does keep that team from being a bottom lottery team, even without George.

 

There are a lot of reasons the Bulls are struggling. But rookie coach or not, if you've got a superstar and an all-star, and the rest of your roster is average, you should be better than the Bulls are currently. But they fit the narrative of a team with two all-stars and a rookie coach working with an average rest of the roster.

[Magicman28 295]

I'm not docking Jimmy Butler. He's a great player. But a superstar he is not, and Rose's usage rate actually points to that. Maybe when the Bulls are ready to move on from the Ghost of Derrick Rose, he will be. But right now, he still doesn't have the standing with his own team to take over from a guy who hasn't been great in 5 years. So Butler still has a maybe to him. George doesn't anymore. Before this year, I would have said George had to earn that superstar status in my book. But he's been carrying the Pacers, an otherwise misshapen team in transition, like a superstar should, and I'm giving him the credit. Vogel does keep that team from being a bottom lottery team, even without George.

 

There are a lot of reasons the Bulls are struggling. But rookie coach or not, if you've got a superstar and an all-star, and the rest of your roster is average, you should be better than the Bulls are currently. But they fit the narrative of a team with two all-stars and a rookie coach working with an average rest of the roster.

 

You know? Your right. He isn't a superstar. He's not Lebron, Curry, and Durant.

 

He's just a really good player who's also a tough hard working player who likes to be challenged.

 

P4TW brought up Detroit. I wanna be like that. All those guys were tough, hard working, with talent, but accepted the challenge night in night out with no thought of surrendering and they won because of that.

 

I want this team to follow that. Imo, that's what's missing in the NBA and probably is what will beat GS.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

Derrick Rose isn't better than anybody. He's one of the worst players in the NBA, his ORTG is worse than rookie Oladipo and he has a WS/48 of .006 which lower than Shabazz Napier's. The fact that you think he's an average starter is a testament to how flawed you premise is.

 

I hear you. He has some serious negatives to him. But his biggest problem is he thinks he's still the man on that team. There is a difference between playing like one of the worst and being one of the worst. His ORTG is terrible because his usage is through the roof. Get him under control, and I am convinced he's an average starting PG. To illustrate, Kobe's ORTG and DRTG are actually worse than Rose's. Do you really think Kobe is one of the worst players in the league, or is he just not convinced any of the other players can lead on the court, and there's no one else with enough standing to sit him down? If Butler sits Rose's ass down and tells him to get in line, like a superstar should, then Rose is an average starting NBA PG.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

You know? Your right. He isn't a superstar. He's not Lebron, Curry, and Durant.

 

He's just a really good player who's also a tough hard working player who likes to be challenged.

 

P4TW brought up Detroit. I wanna be like that. All those guys were tough, hard working, with talent, but accepted the challenge night in night out with no thought of surrendering and they won because of that.

 

I want this team to follow that. Imo, that's what's missing in the NBA and probably is what will beat GS.

 

I liked Detroit. And I agree that that may be what it takes to get past GS. Which is why I like San Antonio. I don't know that we can be Detroit, though. I love Jimmy Bulter, guys. He's my type of player, and he'd fit in perfectly on this team. I think if you could get him without giving up 2 high-valued assets and two solid assets, you do it. And maybe Hennigan can get that done. All I'm saying is I don't like the trade mentioned where we give up half the team.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

You listed 5. What Detroit did was an anomaly. Utah!? What have they won?! Who have they've signed other than Hayward who's Harris with a consistent shot?

 

You really think that's what's going to happen? Seriously man. You know that ain't happening. Durant will sign for another year at the worse and OKC will find ways to improve the ball club. It's what winners do.

I didn't list 5.

 

And I was giving examples of why a discussion about a core means nothing really.

[Magicman28 295]

I didn't list 5.

 

And I was giving examples of why a discussion about a core means nothing really.

 

 

Dipo, AG, Mario, Payton and you sat on the fench with Vuc.

 

Core is your foundation.

[Mack1085 57]

its Gordon, Hezonja, Oladipo and Payton. in that order.

 

Vuc is and isn't. We're kind of stuck with him because we're in a position where he's just good enough on a cheap contract that we can't really find a better replacement.

 

1) Gordon

2) Hezonja

3) Oladipo

4) Payton

 

5 and not 5) Vucevic

 

Now can we move on? The premise still holds. That's a lineup, not a core. If I was going to pick a core to build around I would go with Hezonja, Fournier, Gordon. I love the versatility with those three and the shooting of hezonja and fournier. That is who I would choose to build around. If you can get a defensive center to replace Vuc, you would probably need a PG who can keep defenses honest from 3 until Gordon's shot becomes more consistent.