Miller4Prez66 545 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 What are you not a fan of specifically? The shooting range? The athleticism? The swag? Or you don't like him because others seem to? Shooting range, athleticism and swag? You mean things guys like JR Smith and Nick Young have? I'm not saying he's doomed to be a bust, but I haven't bought into the hype from day one. He could very well be a special player, but I'm sorry I won't jump on the Mario Hezonja is the best thing ever bandwagon a lot of people have been doing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibn Battuta 127 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 So you think Porzingis won't be as advertised. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 I get what you're saying here, I think. But I have to add, if his name was Mario Johnson and he played at Marquette or Maryland and he scored 6 points a game on 15 minutes, he would not be drafted. Now, that said, I don't think he would have been that ill-used in Marquette or Maryland. I think you're right that had he been in college he'd be considered for the number one pick (though I don't think his name would need to be changed). But that is the misunderstanding of most of us Americans about Spanish league basketball. I was at a party last night with my brother-in-law, a really knowledgeable American basketball guy. He hated every foreign guy picked, because none of them scored more than 10 points a game in the Spanish league with guys he believes just couldn't make it to the NBA. His opinion is literally that college basketball is a higher level of competition than the Spanish league (don't get me wrong, he loved Mudiay for whatever reason). His argument is based on the idea that the best foreign players come overseas to America if they can play in the NBA, while the American guys who can't make it in the NBA go to Europe, and that's mostly true. But the misunderstanding comes when assuming that projected talent could beat established talent. Look at it this way: the best player in college basketball in 2013-14, talent-wise, was Andrew Wiggins; he scored 16 a game in the NBA. Your belief from those numbers might be that the best players in college basketball would be decent starters on NBA rosters. But does anyone believe Andrew Wiggins would have gotten the minutes he did and the production out of those minutes if he'd been playing for a contender in the NBA? No. Does anyone believe he could have even done that well in Minnesota as an 18-year-old? Hell, no! Most people don't want to hear it, but J.R. Smith was a better player last year than Andrew Wiggins. Most people don't want to hear it, but the FC Barcelona team that Hezonja played for would have dominated Kentucky; Real Madrid would have lit them up like a damn Christmas tree. And it's not that crazy. Five years from now, those Kentucky players could come back and put the Stone Cold Smackdown on the collected best players of both teams, probably. But those Kentucky players were, this past year, a bunch of young kids playing against other young kids. Championship-contending Spanish League teams are full of guys who are established talents, mature and ready to chew up little 18-19-year old kids. They might not be star NBA players (though most would be or have proven to be solid contributors on NBA rosters), but it is commonly defended by anyone who knows the game that the worst team in the NBA could beat any college team 10 times out of 10. Why? So many reasons physical and mental. But do we think the post All-Star-Game Knicks would beat FC Barcelona or Real Madrid 10 times out of 10? No. Likely the Knicks are the better team, and they'd win a series with those Spanish teams (though, really, even that just doesn't seem right), but they would be close series'. Why? Because it would be games where both teams had established mature players who understood their roles and knew how to execute, only the American team would have (I suppose) slightly more talent. So is that like saying that Hezonja could only get 15 minutes and 5 points a night for the Knicks as a 19-year-old? Not quite. The Spanish League is weird with minutes. with everyone, even the best players. FC Barcelona, the runner-up for the championship, was led in minutes by Justin Doellman, at a whopping 22.6 per game. Real Madrid's team was led by Sergio Llull at the workhorse pace of 24.7. And this is based very much on seniority and level of commitment to staying with the team, two things Mario did not have. And really how could he? He could not have been born earlier, and he clearly wants to be in the NBA. Another thing to remember is that Spanish League teams play at an agonizingly slow pace. The most dominant team in the League (Real Madrid), scored 86 points per game. That's why good statisticians adjust Spanish League players' stats to account for minutes and pace. Finally, why did Porzingis, at a younger age, get more minutes and opportunity than Hezonja? For the same reason that Wiggins got more minutes and opportunity in Minnesota than Kawhi Leonard got as a rookie with San Antonio. Porzingis was not playing for one of the top Spanish League teams, and still he was fifth in minutes (it seems like everyone on that team played right at 20 minutes). In truth, the fact that Mario got burn at all in Real Madrid means he's special. I hope that was helpful in understanding a little bit of how Hezonja can be such a high pick with the numbers he put up in Spain. You started out going one way and then totally took the wind out of my sails by posting my exact argument. Very good post that I appreciated reading. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heisenberg 18 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 http://www.nba.com/magic/news/orlando-magic-draft-grades-around-web Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magicblue 315 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 Shooting range, athleticism and swag? You mean things guys like JR Smith and Nick Young have? I'm not saying he's doomed to be a bust, but I haven't bought into the hype from day one. He could very well be a special player, but I'm sorry I won't jump on the Mario Hezonja is the best thing ever bandwagon a lot of people have been doing. I'm just saying your grade of C is stupid if it's based solely on "not buying the hype" or "not jumping on the bandwagon" because those aren't actual reasons to like or dislike the pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 Shooting range, athleticism and swag? You mean things guys like JR Smith and Nick Young have? I'm not saying he's doomed to be a bust, but I haven't bought into the hype from day one. He could very well be a special player, but I'm sorry I won't jump on the Mario Hezonja is the best thing ever bandwagon a lot of people have been doing. JR Smith is talented, yet flawed. If he's your fourth option then fantastic. If he's your second option then you're in trouble. Great teams need crazy guys that can look into the face of adversity and plow through it face first. Some of the most important games in nba history were won by Stephen Jackson, rasheed wallace, Ron Artest, pietrus, hedo, etc. I'd feel much worse about this pick if it was made in 2013. I'm not sure you can have him on a team that will lose for 4 years. But adding him to the group we already have is perfect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 JR Smith is talented, yet flawed. If he's your fourth option then fantastic. If he's your second option then you're in trouble. Great teams need crazy guys that can look into the face of adversity and plow through it face first. Some of the most important games in nba history were won by Stephen Jackson, rasheed wallace, Ron Artest, pietrus, hedo, etc. I'd feel much worse about this pick if it was made in 2013. I'm not sure you can have him on a team that will lose for 4 years. But adding him to the group we already have is perfect. Also JR Smith is a moron who parties too much. I know some stuff about him since he has family here. Ill share : He got drafted and immediately went to the mall and bought so many shoes and jerseys that his parents had to take him back to the mall and return everything. This guy is a bad decision machine. MASSIVE talent though. I mean, wow, what a great player. So imagine if he wasn't a fool who partied too much and had impulse control. Well that could be Mario. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 Also JR Smith is a moron who parties too much. I know some stuff about him since he has family here. Ill share : He got drafted and immediately went to the mall and bought so many shoes and jerseys that his parents had to take him back to the mall and return everything. This guy is a bad decision machine. MASSIVE talent though. I mean, wow, what a great player. So imagine if he wasn't a fool who partied too much and had impulse control. Well that could be Mario. Agreed. And Mario's attitude problem is similar to Kobe's attitude problem. "I'm great and if you were better we would be winning." If Hezonja averages 13 ppg on 35-42 win teams he'll be a "head case" but if he averages 19 ppg on 45-55 win teams he'll be "a great leader who is keeping his team focused". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 Its true. This is my favorite draft pick since Dwight - easily. It's amazing to think we actually have this guy and are not fantasizing about it anymore and thinking of suitable picks if we passed on him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harveycoolbreeze 5 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 There are lots of good UFA bigs available this year! big UFAs available LaMarcus Aldridge Kevin Love Paul Millsap Amir Johnson Brandon Bass Chuck Hayes Greg Monroe Kevin Seraphin Thomas Robinson Tyler Hansbrough Jason Smith Ed Davis Jason Maxiell Marc Gasol Tyson Chandler DeAndre Jordan Omer Asik Robin Lopez Greg Monroe Brandan Wright Who do you like? I'd have to say Jason Maxiell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magicblue 315 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 I'd have to say Jason Maxiell Lol! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Jaudon 221 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 Its true. This is my favorite draft pick since Dwight - easily. It's amazing to think we actually have this guy and are not fantasizing about it anymore and thinking of suitable picks if we passed on him. Stop. I'm trying to remain calm, and not expect too much of the guy. I'm trying not to imagine J.R. Smith with Kobe's work ethic or Klay Thompson with Kobe's attitude. I'm trying not to see Mike Miller's evil twin with a chip on his shoulder. I'm repeating to myself over and over the mantra: Rudy Fernandez, Swaggy P, O.J. Mayo... Rudy Fernandez, Swaggy P, O.J. Mayo. Now the minute he comes out and drops thirty on somebody, I might go nuts... but for now, don't get me too excited. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
