Official 2015 Draft Thread

[MagicFanInNevada 51]

This is my preference. I love the balance of that starting line-up and think that unit could be more than adequate both offensively and defensively (with proper coaching).

 

That's my preference too bro. I think that offense brings balance and athleticism. If they bring back Tobias and sign someone like CJ Watson and we'd have a 2nd unit that could have us competing on a nightly basis. Harris, Fournier, Watson, Frye, and Dedmon would be respectable. I think Harris would be an awesome 6th man

[fan for too long 2 531]

First of all, to say that this team does not need offense from its 4 is absurd. This team has been terrible on offense for 3 years. They need offense from anywhere they can get it.

 

Secondly, accusing everyone who has questions about the WCS idea of looking at the draft through an offensive lens (at least I think that's what you meant to say) is basically ignoring that there are in fact two sides of the game of basketball. It isn't the NFL, where drafting a D-lineman over a RB is a move for defense. Any NBA draft pick will affect both the offense and defense, and so any NBA draft pick (especially in terms of fit) must be looked at with an understanding of how he will affect both offense and defense. Anyone here will agree that WCS would make Orlando a much better defensive team. Those who are questioning the idea are those who fear what his limitations will do to the offensive side of the game, and think it may offset any impact made on the defensive end.

 

There are plenty of places WCS could go where he would not hurt the offense because he could just stay near the basket where he can be useful on occasion and grab offensive rebounds. But can Orlando afford for him to do that? For him to be able to do that, there have to be shooters around him. Orlando currently has two guys who see significant minutes who can shoot consistently: Frye and Fournier. Frye plays WCS' position unless Orlando trades Vuc. Fournier comes off the bench. Which means the starting lineup in Orlando (if Harris is retained) consists of five players who are all most effective from 15 feet and in, and no players who are consistently effective from beyond 20 feet. If his minutes are managed creatively (putting him in lineups with Frye or Fournier as much as possible), it can be arranged so that only 4 of the players need the same area. That is not just a problem. That is a catastrophe. We saw that catastrophe last year with Dedmon and 4. The defense was better but the offense was abysmal, so the team was still terrible.

 

That is why in some very legitimate lines of thinking Porzingis makes more sense than WCS. Porz projects as a better than average rim protector. He won't be guarding 1-5's like WCS; but defense doesn't have to be played that way. Memphis doesn't have Gasol or Zebo guarding little guys, and neither did the Lakers when they started Gasol and Bynum. Nor do the Jazz or the Bulls or the Hornets or the Wizards or the Pacers play mostly lineups with 4's who can guard more than two or at best three positions, all teams in the top 15 in defensive efficiency.

 

There is the issue. Defense can be played very well in Orlando without a player like WCS. A good argument exists that with WCS and no other consistent shooters (which is the way Orlando's team is currently built), the Magic would not be able to be effective at all on offense.

 

So it seems that, in fact, Orlando really does need offense from its 4. It needs both offense and defense. Which is why some people like Porzingis.

 

 

To throw all the teams offensive woes on Dedmon is overvaluing his impact on the that side of the floor. For one he did not play that many minutes, and he was not the one turning the ball over and throwing up brick after brick. To put it all on him is just wrong.

[O_SteveO 102]

To throw all the teams offensive woes on Dedmon is overvaluing his impact on the that side of the floor. For one he did not play that many minutes, and he was not the one turning the ball over and throwing up brick after brick. To put it all on him is just wrong.

We're comparing two players (WCS and Dedmon) who both bring zero spacing to lineups with suspect shooters, right? Of course it isn't all Dedmon's fault, but the point is we've seen how horrible our spacing/offense can be with a totally non-offensive 4 on the floor with the starters.

[Catman 380]

That's not true in the literal sense. Of course GS doesn't put Curry on 5s or 4s. Thompson isn't guarding any good 5s. Barnes can't guard a 5. Iggy can't guard a 5. Bogut isn't guarding any 1 or 2 worth his salt.

 

 

They all switch to an position. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but just watch the games.

 

Bogut HAS guarded 2s. That is what makes these big, elite defenders so valuable. You can put them on 2s and 3s who can't shoot and then they can collapse in on help defense.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

They all switch to an position. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but just watch the games.

 

Bogut HAS guarded 2s. That is what makes these big, elite defenders so valuable. You can put them on 2s and 3s who can't shoot and then they can collapse in on help defense.

 

I think you don't understand what he's trying to say. Bogut defended Tony Allen because they preferred other matchups for Draymond and Allen isn't offensively talented enough to exploit Bogut. That doesn't mean Bogut regularly defends shooting guards.

 

Cleveland is likely going to stick kyrie on Harrison Barnes in order to avoid curry or Thompson destroying him and that allows shumpert and LeBron to defend them. You can't say Kyrie defends small forward regularly.

[magicblue 315]

They all switch to an position. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but just watch the games.

 

Bogut HAS guarded 2s. That is what makes these big, elite defenders so valuable. You can put them on 2s and 3s who can't shoot and then they can collapse in on help defense.

 

You're right, it's not that they're putting Bogut on a SG and asking him to man up one-on-one. They switch and then go into a team help defensive mode when the switches take place. It's the type of team defensive style that I think we have the personnel to replicate regardless of which way we go in the draft, which is exactly why I favor getting a floor stretching guy like Hezonja over a rim protector.

[Soul Bro 1,419]

I still want Winslow. I just see a Leonard type of player (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2482637-who-the-orlando-magic-should-target-in-the-2015-nba-draft) and would be fine watching this small, ultra-aggressive lineup:

 

PG: Easy

SG: Dipo

SF: Winslow

PF: Gordon

C: Vooch

 

I think that lineup has the chance to be very special through some growth and would be tough as nails (save Vooch ).

 

I like the combo of Henny with Skiles making the pick. We now know the identity of the team we're building… tough, fast and unselfish.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

To throw all the teams offensive woes on Dedmon is overvaluing his impact on the that side of the floor. For one he did not play that many minutes, and he was not the one turning the ball over and throwing up brick after brick. To put it all on him is just wrong.

 

Read the post again. The entire point is that no player, no matter the skill-set, exists in a vacuum. Dedmon did play limited minutes. And in those minutes he didn't play Orlando's offense was still bad. They had a very young back court and a crew of inconsistent to bad shooters. But those minutes that Dedmon did play at the 4 were notoriously bad for Orlando's offense. What was an offense that had trouble shooting lost its only good outside shooter when Frye was benched (yes, Frye shot well from outside, just abysmally from everywhere else). What was a bad jump-shooting team became a team that had to make jump-shots, because no one was coming out of that lane. Dedmon, like a poor man's WCS, would have less of a negative impact on a team that could shoot consistently from the outside.

 

Now Cat seems to believe Orlando could run the pick and roll through WCS. I do believe he is a solid pick and roll player, as far as mostly defensive big men go. He'll never be D12, but he'll be solid because of his mobility and athleticism. But I question whether that can work without shooters on the perimeter.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I still want Winslow. I just see a Leonard type of player (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2482637-who-the-orlando-magic-should-target-in-the-2015-nba-draft) and would be fine watching this small, ultra-aggressive lineup:

 

PG: Easy

SG: Dipo

SF: Winslow

PF: Gordon

C: Vooch

 

I think that lineup has the chance to be very special through some growth and would be tough as nails (save Vooch ).

 

I like the combo of Henny with Skiles making the pick. We now know the identity of the team we're building… tough, fast and unselfish.

Yeah, that's my dream. People would hate playing us

[fan for too long 2 531]

You're right, it's not that they're putting Bogut on a SG and asking him to man up one-on-one. They switch and then go into a team help defensive mode when the switches take place. It's the type of team defensive style that I think we have the personnel to replicate regardless of which way we go in the draft, which is exactly why I favor getting a floor stretching guy like Hezonja over a rim protector.

 

I agree we need outside shooting desperately, have you looked at Mario's defense. He is lost most of the time. Forget about him playing a switching defense. It is going to take a lot of work for him to become even an ok defender. This is why you have to take Winslow over him. The guy shot over 40% from 3 this year, its not like he is a bad shooter.

[fan for too long 2 531]

Read the post again. The entire point is that no player, no matter the skill-set, exists in a vacuum. Dedmon did play limited minutes. And in those minutes he didn't play Orlando's offense was still bad. They had a very young back court and a crew of inconsistent to bad shooters. But those minutes that Dedmon did play at the 4 were notoriously bad for Orlando's offense. What was an offense that had trouble shooting lost its only good outside shooter when Frye was benched (yes, Frye shot well from outside, just abysmally from everywhere else). What was a bad jump-shooting team became a team that had to make jump-shots, because no one was coming out of that lane. Dedmon, like a poor man's WCS, would have less of a negative impact on a team that could shoot consistently from the outside.

 

Now Cat seems to believe Orlando could run the pick and roll through WCS. I do believe he is a solid pick and roll player, as far as mostly defensive big men go. He'll never be D12, but he'll be solid because of his mobility and athleticism. But I question whether that can work without shooters on the perimeter.

 

I think WCS can develop an acceptable offense, but I am hopeful that Dedmon can do the same. That is why Winslow is my pick among other parts he brings to the game.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I agree we need outside shooting desperately, have you looked at Mario's defense. He is lost most of the time. Forget about him playing a switching defense. It is going to take a lot of work for him to become even an ok defender. This is why you have to take Winslow over him. The guy shot over 40% from 3 this year, its not like he is a bad shooter.

 

He's a capable defender that falls asleep sometimes. That's pretty easy to correct