Magic sign Channing Frye

[Optimist Prime 197]

I agree that this seems counterintuitive based on other cap saving moves this offseason. I'm sticking with my mantra that we shouldn't judge anything until we see the final product on the floor.

 

Also, we could use the stretch provision on frye at the end of his contract if we don't dump him. Save some money that way.

 

Wait. Are you saying we shouldn't judge this offseason before we see what it translates to on the court over the season? Like, the way everyone said ORL got screwed over by not getting Bynum or Lopez? Or, the way people said the Magic got nothing in the Redick trade because no 1st round picks came their way, but they only managed to get some bench scrubs?

 

But isn't the majority of public opinion exactly the same as it was immediately after those deals happened? Or does hindsight actually help to make clearer judgments on these kind of moves?

[Nyce_1 311]

I've been saying this since yesterday, but I guess I never typed it here:

 

For whatever reason (I haven't felt the want to understand it yet) this year, the cap will increase (supposedly) to $63M; a significant jump in comparison to the last few years. Next year, it may be another marginal increase of $1-2M to $64-65M. But in 2 years, with new TV deal up for grabs, the CAP (not tax line) may see a substantially large increase to $70-75M, also possibly raising the size of the MLE to maybe $6.5/7M/yr. Frye's deal may look like an slight overypay now, but in 2 years, it will look average.

 

In 2 years, we'll also likely have a lockout so the CBA can be restructured again. Maybe it becomes harder, and we get an amnesty to use on someone (Frye?).

[jec 427]

Frye is the type of player Hennigan wants on this team. Character guy, on and off the court. He will spread the floor and make things easier for our PG's.

 

Did we "over pay"? Sure. But you have to consider our position as well. We aren't a contender, and we aren't going to be in the immediate future. If you were Frye, all things being equal, would you rather go to Orlando or a contender? So, we have to sweeten the pot to coax him here to the Magic.

 

His contract is not anywhere near the level of the Lewis contract.

 

That isn't a fair comparison, though. Lewis put us into the contender category, so his being overpaid was justified. I appreciate you rationalizing signing Channing, but a guaranteed 4 years was completely uncalled for.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Guys, could you kindly stop quoting Eskobar 's posts? It defeats the purpose of me ignoring him. ;)/>

 

Not a chance. I basically have to read them, as a mod, and if I have to read them, then I'm not helping you or anyone else avoid them.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

That isn't a fair comparison, though. Lewis put us into the contender category, so his being overpaid was justified. I appreciate you rationalizing signing Channing, but a guaranteed 4 years was completely uncalled for.

 

I'm not talking about their impact to the team, I'm talking about the impact of their contract to the team and it's ability to operate down the road. Point being, Frye's contract is not in the same ballpark in terms of long term impact and strapping this team's ability to make moves, so there's no sense in reacting like it is. Yes, Lewis helped this team make it to the finals, but his contract still sucked, and by all reports, the final year was uncalled for. Here you have a reasonable though slightly overpaid contract to a transition vet who's going to help this team grow and certain people are pulling their hair out acting like this is the most senseless move ever. Would I have preferred a team option for year 4? Certainly, maybe a little less per year as well, but if that's what it took to get a guy here, fine, because the long term implications of that signing aren't really going to hurt this team.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

I have a hard time believing Frye can be a starting PF on a championship team. Harris is only 21 and already has a better all around game than Frye, there's no reason to believe he can't continue to work on his outside shot and become the stretch four you believe we need.

 

By the time we become contenders, do you believe Frye will still have a role here? That's what I'm focusing on, it doesn't matter what he can do right now, because we aren't contenders right now. The question becomes what can he do for us when we are contenders. Because of his age and already limited skill set, I don't believe he will provide much, if anything. If you want to argue that Frye can help mentor our younger guys, that's fine, I'm not arguing against that. But outside of that I just don't see what purpose he serves long term. Nobody is going to convince me our young guys just won't develop properly unless Channing Frye is around.

 

I'd like to see this lineup:

 

Payton/Oladipo/Fournier

Oladipo/Gordon/Fournier/Green

Gordon/Harkless

Harris/Frye/O'Quinn

Vuc/Dedmon/O'Quinn

 

That gives our young guys plenty of game time, Harris continues to develop, Gordon gets a ton of minutes. Who's to say Harris doesn't develop into a 37-38 percent three point shooter this year or next? He's not the best defensive player but he's not going to bring less defense than Frye, he's a better rebounder and a more well rounded scorer. He's also only 21 so he's only going to get better.

 

By the time we're contenders, Frye is likely not here, or playing purely as a back up on a new and significantly lower contract. He's not here as a piece to push us over the top, he's here as a piece to help season our new guys and help push them as they start to grow into that contending team.

 

Sure, Harris might develop into a better long range threat, but he isn't there now, and adding Frye to the mix is going to have a significant impact to Dipo and Payton both as our primary ball handlers. If you don't think that's important, along with the other things Frye brings to the table, well, that's on you I suppose and you're welcome to think that.

[magicblue 315]

Not a chance. I basically have to read them, as a mod, and if I have to read them, then I'm not helping you or anyone else avoid them.

 

Tough job

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

The 4 years thing doesn't make sense. We'll have to see if he prevents us from making a signing in the future. If he does, it was a bad deal. If he doesn't, then who really cares what we pay him.

[Catman 380]

What other things does Frye bring to the table outside of what you believe he'll do for our PG's and his three point shot?

 

 

See this is the stuff you have to know before you can critique a player.

 

"Dragic is quick to point out that the return of Frye — the team’s most vital spacing agent — has been central to Phoenix’s dramatic offensive improvements. “Last year he had some heart problems and couldn’t play with us, so when I played pick-and-roll I didn’t have that space guy,” he says. “This year, when we play pick-and-roll, Channing stretches the floor so I have room to operate; I can get inside the paint and make other plays for him and everybody else. He just gives us that spacing, and especially for me and Eric he makes things much easier because nobody can rotate from him.”

 

Nobody can rotate away from Frye; there are very few bigs in the league who can shoot from distance as well as he can.

 

Frye says the keys to their pick-and-roll success are quick recognition and smart decisions to create defensive stresses.

 

“Goran is an extremely prolific scorer and for me it’s about establishing that I’m going to set a good screen every single time and try to get my guy to get off Goran’s body,” Frye said. “If Goran’s guy goes under, it’s Goran’s job to be able to shoot that shot and my job to give him the space to shoot it in. If my guy stays on Goran, it’s my job to create space for myself to get an open shot. You know, I’ve got to assess this within milliseconds, but we’ve been good at it. Goran’s been aggressive and smart, while I’ve been pretty good at hitting the shots that I’ve been given and trying to make the right decisions.”

 

Frye takes more 3s than 2s, and his ability to drain those 3s is worth far more than just the handful of points that directly result from those baskets. It’s a constant threat that demands defensive attention and changes the defensive tactics in a way that opens up the interior for his attacking teammates. Frye’s proficient above-the-break shot is arguably the most important in the whole offense, and it obviously wasn’t there last year.

 

But this season, the Suns run a terrifying pick-and-pop that results in Frye threatening near the top of the arc and, as he says, puts the defense in a horrible predicament:

 

“If you have penetrators like Goran there’s no way the defense can stop the ball and get back to the shooter in time, especially with me because I’m almost 7 feet tall and have a pretty quick release,” Frye said. “It’s just a matter of who is doing what on the defense, and our offense making the decision from there.”

 

Frye has a gravitational pull that forces bigs away from the rim, creating attacking corridors for Dragic, who excels at “turning the corner,” attacking the basket, and making plays. In turn, Dragic’s attacking abilities create wide-open looks for Frye or other perimeter shooters. This symbiosis is the heart of the Suns’ offensive ecosystem, and it is by no means an accident."

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/how-to-train-your-dragic-the-suns-star-talks-about-his-evolution/

[ball junkie 277]

Eskobar....I enjoy reading your posts....You have some good insight.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

What other things does Frye bring to the table outside of what you believe he'll do for our PG's and his three point shot?

 

Go back and read the posts where myself and others point these things out. Maybe you should have read them completely to begin with. That's like me asking you what you don't like about the Frye signing other than the fourth year of his contract. You'd think "No wonder I can't get through to this guy, he isn't even reading my posts, what's the point of having a discussion with someone like that?"

[Tom Ford 9]

Go back and read the posts where myself and others point these things out. Maybe you should have read them completely to begin with. That's like me asking you what you don't like about the Frye signing other than the fourth year of his contract. You'd think "No wonder I can't get through to this guy, he isn't even reading my posts, what's the point of having a discussion with someone like that?"

 

the ability to raise someones shot % by and making it easier for them to decide whether to pass or shoot. I said it earlier Dragic's 3 % went from 29.1 to 46.7 < that right there is what he brings.

 

If he could improve Oladipo's 3 % .327 by just 12% that would bring him up to a .447 3 baller and if that were to happen I'm sure a good chunk of this board would be ecstatic! The ability to change the game even without the ball is a huge asset we lacked this big time last year.

 

But go ahead we get it, you don't agree with the pick and that's fine.