2013 - 2014 Regular Season Thread

[Janders 102]

:popcorn:

[ML6 520]

As enthralling as BJ's rant/meltdown has been, the assertion that Harkless, Harris, and Nicholson have been told by management to "hold back" is the most hilarious thing that has been said thus far, in my opinion.

[BN 44]

You know it's bad when posters are conducting conference calls to figure out how to argue DoMe.

 

 

Are you saying management told them not to give 100% on the court? What's next, trying to beat the point spread?

 

Right, wouldn't that be new in the league...

[barnettej 263]

You know it's bad when posters are conducting conference calls to figure out how to argue DoMe.

 

 

Well it is DOM... I have to be careful and write intelligently (or I get destroyed).... I know it doesnt seem like it..lol

 

Still on the call....

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

No, it's no longer DOM, it is now DoMe since this is what I imagine he is chanting once NP bursts into his office.

[barnettej 263]

No, it's no longer DOM, it is now DoMe since this is what I imagine he is chanting once NP bursts into his office.

 

+10... That was a good line.

[barnettej 263]

In factually wrong ... Please tell me how:

 

Barnettej - Fact: Doc, SVG, Brian have better winning records than Vaughn as of now, I would even bet that Matt has a better tank record.

 

Drunk On Misery -You really want to compare the win records of a coach brought in to be a ra-ra guy for a tanking team to a coach who inherited a 33-17 team and went backwards into mediocrity, a guy who inherited a playoff team with a budding Dwight Howard, and a guy who inherited a team with the reigning rookie of the year who had just finished 7th in the MVP voting AND the #1 pick in the draft AND had missed the playoffs by 1 game the previous year?

You do understand the concept of comparing apples and oranges, right?

 

Barnettej-Yes I want you to look at a guy like Doc Rivers and what he did with the Magic and compare it too what Vaughn is doing now. Both Apples right? Similar situation.. more so than Matt, Brian, SVG? And the point was... they all had a plan, a rotation they stuck with.. might of not made sense at times, but they stuck to them. That is the root to my concern.

Barnettej - Fact: there hasn't been a consisten rotation since last year, no I won't pull the minutes and graph them.. Because I'm already providing real facts and not some BS statements

Drunk On Misery -Do you think Glen Davis should have started last year even while he was injured? Should Nik Vucevic have started with a concussion? Should Tobias Harris have started with his foot in a boot? Injuries have consequences, and the largest one is a complete lack of rotation consistency, since you have to plug a lot of holes.

 

Barnettej - Again, Vaughn's rotation isnt consistent and to quote from him he wants players in a position to be conducive to winning. And basis his rotation on matchups (read the latest Josh Robbins report), from his answer on why Andrew cant get minutes... because Vuaghn doesnt want him against quicker players... but then sits him during the Detroit game.... Did Monroe or Drummond increase their speed? Would that not been a good matchup. Again, its concerning. Now to the above comment on playing injured players... Really?.. Yes I want every injured player to play... If Glen has one leg, he should be out there. There ya go.

But they are healthy now, so whats the reason for not having a rotation? Apples/Oranges.....

 

Barnettej-Fact: there is no garuntee that any of the prospects will definitely without a doubt enter the draft. Many things can happen, like injuries.

 

Drunk On Misery -There is no guarantee that Anne Hathaway isn't 10 seconds from bursting into my office, pinning me down, and ****ing me to death either.

 

However, the fact that something is within the realm of physical possibility doesn't mean that it's an eventuality worth planning for. Any basic analysis of the situation will tell you that if even 3 of the players mentioned as top draft prospects choose to stay in school, this still ends up being a loaded draft. And the odds that even 1 of them does it is low, given the enormous financial benefit to leaving early.

Barnettej - There is a 100% guarantee that wont happen because you dont look like this guy: http://bit.ly/1e7exNN And your right, because there is a possibility doesnt mean that its worth planning for. Which leads to the belief that we are going to draft based on need. Therefor, if the positional player who fits that need from a top 5 perspective stays... then it messes us up and made this tanking situation pointless (Settle for top player #4, while #1,#2,#3 go to someone else the following year). Unless, your saying that every position is a need and it doesnt matter. Then your example is correct, we still get a talented player that will provide value for that position. Like Victor on PG duties.

We cannot tank in year #3 - Just bad business.

 

Barnettej-Fact: We play our injured prone players more than our healthy ones.

 

Drunk On Misery -You do realize that if we chose not to play those players, that would only create more lineup volatility, right? So being upset with this completely negates your earlier point. You don't get to complain about a lack of consistency and then demand huge, sweeping changes. That's intellectually dishonest.

Barnettej - Does anyone here think that Glen or Nelson doesnt have the trade thought in their mind.... or the want to go to a playoff team while their careers are tailing off. If you dont think that has happened, then alright. But, they know just like everyone else knows, that they are the first on the block from a rebuild perspective.

 

And creating lineup volatility.. Thats happening now. How logical is this:

 

Glen Davis - 31min avg (Trade Bait)

Victor O - 32min avg (Rookie)

Andrew N - 16min avg (2nd Year)

 

Unless there is some other minute stats that im not aware of.

 

Barnettej-So please DOM, provide your facts to dispute the above.

 

Barnettej- Last but not least:

 

Relax - make or become less tense or anxious. (One cannot be this if he/she is concerned)

 

Being concerned, doesnt mean your freaking out. You can be calm, but concerned.

[magicblue 315]

My wish list:

-Find a rotation and stick with it.

-Save your injury prone trade pieces, don't let them get injured (Glen could of been moved last year, then broke his foot.

-Do not rely on this draft and having the number one pick, the worst record doesn't get #1.. They just have better odds (See NO when they got Anth Davis, When Charlotte had the worst record with 7-59)

 

That's all I'm looking for, and if only manage 20wins... Then atleast we know what we have and what to improve.

 

To take the current route, we don't know what we have or what we need because we are too busy packing it in.

 

Awesome game plan. Sounds like my Detroit Lions.

 

 

We're not tanking. Tanking implies a choice is being made to lose. We straight suck...there's no manipulation here. The result of this is a better chance for a higher pick, so I'm not sure I see the problem with hoping for the highest possible pick? Also, none of your suggestions above make us significantly better or worse (because we really do suck), it's just kind of your preference.

[~O~ 565]

Are you saying management told them not to give 100% on the court? What's next, trying to beat the point spread?

 

The answer is a toss up. That's why I said "i feel" that management could be behind this. "I feel" they are much more better than what is shown on court. Assuming that management has an agenda to lose for draft positioning, they would have no choice to play worse than what is expected of them.

 

Assuming that they are legitimately playing as hard as possible in attempt to reach the playoffs, I would say everyone but A.A., V.O, N.V., A.N. has improved. That's more so based off the flashes I've seen at the beginning of the season. Based off my aim to use actual analysis on games rather than my laziness to avoid using statistics at all times, there has only been slight improvement excluding A.A. After Boston was tossing games mid way through the previous decade, you cannot disregard that the Magic doing this is implausible. Most of all, we would just be plain mediocre if this is the case. Being accused of tanking wouldn't matter if you plain out sucked.

 

But yeah..don't get me involved in this tank panic above and below. Bully someone else like Nittarny, or 30assists.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

In factually wrong ... Please tell me how:

 

Barnettej - Fact: Doc, SVG, Brian have better winning records than Vaughn as of now, I would even bet that Matt has a better tank record.

 

Drunk On Misery -You really want to compare the win records of a coach brought in to be a ra-ra guy for a tanking team to a coach who inherited a 33-17 team and went backwards into mediocrity, a guy who inherited a playoff team with a budding Dwight Howard, and a guy who inherited a team with the reigning rookie of the year who had just finished 7th in the MVP voting AND the #1 pick in the draft AND had missed the playoffs by 1 game the previous year?

You do understand the concept of comparing apples and oranges, right?

 

Barnettej-Yes I want you to look at a guy like Doc Rivers and what he did with the Magic and compare it too what Vaughn is doing now. Both Apples right? Similar situation.. more so than Matt, Brian, SVG? And the point was... they all had a plan, a rotation they stuck with.. might of not made sense at times, but they stuck to them. That is the root to my concern.

 

No, what Doc had isn't even vaguely similar circumstances to what Vaughn has been given. Doc inherited a team that had finished the previous season in a 3-way tie for first in the East. They'd lost Penny, yes, but they still were a team with a TON of defensive talent and solid young role players, and Penny was *only* a 16/5/5 player that year before anyway. So it would only be really comparable to now if you replaced Kyle O'Quinn with a young Ben Wallace, turned Andrew Nicholson into someone with a Serge Ibaka skillset, and aged Jameer Nelson backwards about 6 years.

 

Barnettej - Fact: there hasn't been a consisten rotation since last year, no I won't pull the minutes and graph them.. Because I'm already providing real facts and not some BS statements

Drunk On Misery -Do you think Glen Davis should have started last year even while he was injured? Should Nik Vucevic have started with a concussion? Should Tobias Harris have started with his foot in a boot? Injuries have consequences, and the largest one is a complete lack of rotation consistency, since you have to plug a lot of holes.

 

Barnettej - Again, Vaughn's rotation isnt consistent and to quote from him he wants players in a position to be conducive to winning. And basis his rotation on matchups (read the latest Josh Robbins report), from his answer on why Andrew cant get minutes... because Vuaghn doesnt want him against quicker players... but then sits him during the Detroit game.... Did Monroe or Drummond increase their speed? Would that not been a good matchup. Again, its concerning. Now to the above comment on playing injured players... Really?.. Yes I want every injured player to play... If Glen has one leg, he should be out there. There ya go.

But they are healthy now, so whats the reason for not having a rotation? Apples/Oranges.....

 

Wait, what do you think a rotation IS? My whole point about injuries was that forming a consistent rotation when you're missing a different two players every week is impossible; you have no idea what skillsets mesh with others, and where you're going to have talent overlaps. It became obvious after 5 games or so of seeing them on the court at the same time that a lineup featuring Oladipo, Harkless and Harris doesn't work well because they're all inconsistent shooters at this point(though Harkless has shown improvement lately). That matters and is important information, but if you haven't gotten to see those players on the court at the same time because Harris missed the first third of the year, that's going to require mid-season adjustments and experiments.

 

Second, if the goal is to win and you're not winning, the obvious choice to make is to change your lineup to something else to see if that new lineup will give you a better chance of winning.

 

Third, despite your claims he was like, super consistent in his lineups that year, Doc Rivers trotted out 9 different starting lineups his first year here, and that's despite having almost no major injuries that season.

Barnettej-Fact: there is no garuntee that any of the prospects will definitely without a doubt enter the draft. Many things can happen, like injuries.

 

Drunk On Misery -There is no guarantee that Anne Hathaway isn't 10 seconds from bursting into my office, pinning me down, and ****ing me to death either.

 

However, the fact that something is within the realm of physical possibility doesn't mean that it's an eventuality worth planning for. Any basic analysis of the situation will tell you that if even 3 of the players mentioned as top draft prospects choose to stay in school, this still ends up being a loaded draft. And the odds that even 1 of them does it is low, given the enormous financial benefit to leaving early.

Barnettej - There is a 100% guarantee that wont happen because you dont look like this guy: http://bit.ly/1e7exNN And your right, because there is a possibility doesnt mean that its worth planning for. Which leads to the belief that we are going to draft based on need. Therefor, if the positional player who fits that need from a top 5 perspective stays... then it messes us up and made this tanking situation pointless (Settle for top player #4, while #1,#2,#3 go to someone else the following year). Unless, your saying that every position is a need and it doesnt matter. Then your example is correct, we still get a talented player that will provide value for that position. Like Victor on PG duties.

We cannot tank in year #3 - Just bad business.

 

I literally have no idea what any of this means, except for the last bit. Your first paragraph seems to be addressing some point I didn't make, in a way I can't comprehend.

 

Otherwise, we absolutely could tank in year 3, because "tanking" is about whether or not you have the skilled players to make the playoffs and be a contender. If we don't have those, we'll "tank" again.

 

Did you complain when Brian Hill missed the playoffs his first year as a coach, even though he had the ROY runner up AND the #3 in the MVP voting on his team?

 

Barnettej-Fact: We play our injured prone players more than our healthy ones.

 

Drunk On Misery -You do realize that if we chose not to play those players, that would only create more lineup volatility, right? So being upset with this completely negates your earlier point. You don't get to complain about a lack of consistency and then demand huge, sweeping changes. That's intellectually dishonest.

Barnettej - Does anyone here think that Glen or Nelson doesnt have the trade thought in their mind.... or the want to go to a playoff team while their careers are tailing off. If you dont think that has happened, then alright. But, they know just like everyone else knows, that they are the first on the block from a rebuild perspective.

 

And creating lineup volatility.. Thats happening now. How logical is this:

 

Glen Davis - 31min avg (Trade Bait)

Victor O - 32min avg (Rookie)

Andrew N - 16min avg (2nd Year)

 

Unless there is some other minute stats that im not aware of.

 

That isn't "lineup volatility", and I'm starting to think you're the kind of word criminal who belongs in language jail.

 

If, with a healthy lineup, Glen Davis gets consistently more minutes than Andrew Nicholson on a night to night basis, that isn't volatility; that's just Glen Davis being ahead of Nicholson in the rotation. If you want to complain about that being a poor decision, you're welcome to do so, but that's not the same thing as not having a consistent lineup. And if the point is to win games, which Vaughn has said it is as you so helpfully pointed out, the fact that you, I, or anyone else deem Glen Davis to be "trade bait" is completely goddamned irrelevant. And the terrible truth in the situation is that as much as I don't want Glen Davis on the court at any given time of day, the fact remains that until Andrew Nicholson gets to a point where he can at least keep a parking cone in front of him on defense, Glen Davis is the superior player and deserves the lion's share of the minutes. That's reality. It's maybe not a PLEASANT reality, but that's a separate point entirely.

 

Barnettej-So please DOM, provide your facts to dispute the above.

 

Barnettej- Last but not least:

 

Relax - make or become less tense or anxious. (One cannot be this if he/she is concerned)

 

Being concerned, doesnt mean your freaking out. You can be calm, but concerned.

[barnettej 263]

Great discussion, glad I can get these boards rolling.

 

I'm still sticking with the notion that we have problems. The responses were not good enough to sway the thought.

 

You guys like the direction and current situation. Me, not so much. Agree to disagree.

 

Next up, Barnettej will talk about being a small market... Ha ha ha... Just kidding.. Captain and I already did that..lol

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I'm just happy we have an ongoing conversation today.