Good analysis of magic's balanced offense

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

When we start losing games because of Arenas' usage rate then ok - I will be the first in line to complain - but he is doing exactly what I thought he would do when I originally proposed the Lewis for Arenas swap back in the summer and that is to be the best back up PG in the NBA (becoming a legit 6th man that is a PG) and to allow the Magic to redistribute the talent level on the roster to make it more effective.

 

 

He's not doing that though, for all the reasons that have been mentioned. The second unit is performing much more effectively for 3 reasons:

 

1) JJ and to a lesser extent Ryan Anderson have shot VERY well in the last few games.

2) The trades have forced a shorter big man rotation, which means Dwight is in the game for a greater percentage of the game

3) Duhon is no longer required to play except in garbage time.

 

Gilbert is ultimately only responsible for #3, and even then only in a very roundabout way. There is overwhelming evidence to suggest that the second unit is performing well despite Gilbert's play, not because of it.

[AcuWill 45]

We don't need his production to pick up. We just need him to be good and dynamic during specific points in the playoffs. If Arenas can win 1 game by himself in a 7 game playoff series, that might be enough to make his position on our team worth it. Jameer, JJ, and JRich can handle scoring in the guard spots during Arenas downtime.

Despite his bad shooting, Arenas seems to hit key buckets at key times. For example, the Bucks game when the Bucks were starting to close the gap, Arenas sunk the three that shut the game down.

 

He tends to do the same with his pace as well. I would like to see Arenas penetrate more and be efficient, but the intangibles that he brings are excellent.

 

Arenas is the new "Jameer is too short and overpaid" of the board. EVERY THREAD turns into it. :panicworker:

[AcuWill 45]

He's not doing that though, for all the reasons that have been mentioned. The second unit is performing much more effectively for 3 reasons:

 

1) JJ and to a lesser extent Ryan Anderson have shot VERY well in the last few games.

2) The trades have forced a shorter big man rotation, which means Dwight is in the game for a greater percentage of the game

3) Duhon is no longer required to play except in garbage time.

 

Gilbert is ultimately only responsible for #3, and even then only in a very roundabout way. There is overwhelming evidence to suggest that the second unit is performing well despite Gilbert's play, not because of it.

You ignore the pace he brings though and the swagger to the unit. They play so damn cocky, its awesome. I reminds me of a situation I had at a Stetson basketball camp in my youth. The coach brought out the fattest most sorry kid in the whole camp. He made him shoot a fake jumpshot, then asked him, "Did you make it?" the Kid replied, "Of course." The coach then made a point about confidence and swagger.

 

THAT is what Arenas brings. That attitude we have not had on this team EVER. It is infecting the whole team up and down, even SVG.

[magicLA 57]

He's not doing that though, for all the reasons that have been mentioned. The second unit is performing much more effectively for 3 reasons:

 

1) JJ and to a lesser extent Ryan Anderson have shot VERY well in the last few games.

2) The trades have forced a shorter big man rotation, which means Dwight is in the game for a greater percentage of the game

3) Duhon is no longer required to play except in garbage time.

 

Gilbert is ultimately only responsible for #3, and even then only in a very roundabout way. There is overwhelming evidence to suggest that the second unit is performing well despite Gilbert's play, not because of it.

 

C'mon AQ you know that the pace he plays at and the ability to find the right shooter or make the right pass and hit those marks at the right time and in the right spot have vastly improved the PG function in the second unit - more fast breaks / easy shots. All that is foundational to an efficient offense. Without the Arenas trade Anderson doesn't play. Without the Arenas trade and his scoring threat JJ is playing in the Duhon sludge making him much less effective.

 

Arenas and Howard have only played 50 minutes together (5.5 mpg) and when they have those two lineups are +17 and+ 21

 

 

+ most teams have their bench scoring come from the SG/SF/PF positions which usually means their PG is a game manager type of player (Duhon) and most back up C's are offensively challenged. With a 6th man Point Guard you have a ball dominant player that is also your floor manager giving you scoring options at 4 positions instead of 3 like most teams' second units.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Despite his bad shooting, Arenas seems to hit key buckets at key times. For example, the Bucks game when the Bucks were starting to close the gap, Arenas sunk the three that shut the game down.

 

He tends to do the same with his pace as well. I would like to see Arenas penetrate more and be efficient, but the intangibles that he brings are excellent.

 

Arenas is the new "Jameer is too short and overpaid" of the board. EVERY THREAD turns into it. :panicworker:

 

Were we watching the same game? That shot gave us a 12 point lead, and the Bucks went on the get within 5 points in the quarter, how did it shut the game down? It was Dwight and Hedo that hit shots to pull away and put the game out of reach.

[Audi 60]

I care as well.

 

Gilbert's FG% is 10% lower than the league average, and he turns the ball over on a 1/5th of his possessions.

 

Are those turn overs completely his fault though? Sometimes it seems like it's the hands of players like Bass, Dwight, etc. who aren't accustomed to his style of passing that are causing the turnovers.

[AcuWill 45]

Were we watching the same game? That shot gave us a 12 point lead, and the Bucks went on the get within 5 points in the quarter, how did it shut the game down? It was Dwight and Hedo that hit shots to pull away and put the game out of reach.

I was feverish, I might have messed it up. Lol. Seriously. :tongue:

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

 

C'mon AQ you know that the pace he plays at and the ability to find the right shooter or make the right pass and hit those marks at the right time and in the right spot have vastly improved the PG function in the second unit - more fast breaks / easy shots. All that is foundational to an efficient offense. Without the Arenas trade Anderson doesn't play. Without the Arenas trade and his scoring threat JJ is playing in the Duhon sludge making him much less effective.

 

Arenas and Howard have only played 50 minutes together (5.5 mpg) and when they have those two lineups are +17 and+ 21

 

 

+ most teams have their bench scoring come from the SG/SF/PF positions which usually means their PG is a game manager type of player (Duhon) and most back up C's are offensively challenged. With a 6th man Point Guard you have a ball dominant player that is also your floor manager giving you scoring options at 4 positions instead of 3 like most teams' second units.

 

First of all, you're starting with a point of logic that is inaccurate. Mainly, the idea that the team is playing at a noticeably faster pace:

The average pace through 9 games with these players is 93.5. That's not exactly speed racer, and that includes games against New York and GS.

 

Second, even if a high pace led to better efficiency(and it doesn't: the league's two most efficient offenses are 11th and 22nd in pace), that would hurt your argument, not help it, since Gilbert has proven to be horribly inefficient even playing at a supposed higher pace.

 

Also, I haven't the slightest idea where you got your "Dwight and Gilbert have only played 50 minutes together, but I can tell you without any doubt that that statement is untrue since it's a mathematical impossibility. Even if we assume that Gilbert was in the game for every single available second in the last 9 games where Dwight was on the bench and subtracted that from Gilbert's total minutes played for Orlando, he'd still have HAD to have played roughly 85 minutes next to Dwight.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Are those turn overs completely his fault though? Sometimes it seems like it's the hands of players like Bass, Dwight, etc. who aren't accustomed to his style of passing that are causing the turnovers.

 

In that situation, the turnover is almost always given to the person who fumbles the pass, not the person throwing it, even if the pass wasn't catchable. So if anything, Gilbert should likely have more turnovers.

[Franchero MVP 391]

[Da Blues Man 13]

He's not doing that though, for all the reasons that have been mentioned. The second unit is performing much more effectively for 3 reasons:

 

1) JJ and to a lesser extent Ryan Anderson have shot VERY well in the last few games.

2) The trades have forced a shorter big man rotation, which means Dwight is in the game for a greater percentage of the game

3) Duhon is no longer required to play except in garbage time.

 

Gilbert is ultimately only responsible for #3, and even then only in a very roundabout way. There is overwhelming evidence to suggest that the second unit is performing well despite Gilbert's play, not because of it.

I can't imagine how ugly this is gonna get if we ever lose 2 games in a row. It sure seems that the rest of the players and coaches like what Gilbert brings to the team. Don't take this personal, but I think that's more important than what you think of him.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

I can't imagine how ugly this is gonna get if we ever lose 2 games in a row. It sure seems that the rest of the players and coaches like what Gilbert brings to the team. Don't take this personal, but I think that's more important than what you think of him.

 

I don't know why you think I'd take your opinion personally.