Official Hawks vs Magic game thread

[ThisIsTheYear 241]

Edit: double.

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

Those were your exact words. I didn't add anything to what you said. I read everything you said and I completely disagree with all of it. It's not my fault if people interpret your above statement to read, "If Dwight doesn't improve his free throw shooting, his other offensive improvements are meaningless." My interpretation of your comments is almost the exact same thing you said with the wording slightly different.

 

When your asking people if they think Dwight doesn't want to get better from the line when the other person simply said that he doesn't feel Dwight's free throw game has become strong enough that is adding to someone elses words.

 

Here are the facts: 1) Dwight worked hard on his post game this summer. 2) Dwight always works hard on his free throws. 3) Dwight's post game looks like it has dramatically improved and free throw shooting is around where it was last season. So, if Dwight has worked hard on his free throw shooting and it hasn't improved, what the hell do you want him to do? What message are you trying to deliver to him if he read your statement? You went off on a mini-rant about a well known weakness in his game and you sounded indignant that it hasn't improved, when the smart bet is to assume that it probably wouldn't improve. It's the equivelant of a beginning golfer being upset with himself for not driving the ball straight every time off the tee.

 

1 and 2) I never once disagreed with either of those.

3) As I have already put up with solid numbers to back up, his free throw shooting had not gotten better from last season (59%) but has so far shown to be worse (52%).

What do I want? I'd like to see him get better then a free throw shooting percentage that is worse then even bad free throw shooters. And seeing as he has proven to be more then capable of shooting well (something you don't seem to be willing to look at or accept), then I don't consider that any at all wrong to expect.

And by the way it would be more the equivalent of a pro golfer who has been golfing for more then 6 years being upset with himself for not driving the ball straight off the tee at least 70% of the time.

 

If your statement is true and Dwight's offensive improvements are meaningless if his free throw shooting doesn't improve then that means that Dwight is wasting his time working on other areas of his game. That is why your comments are stupid. If Dwight can't improve his free throw shooting, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that it won't improve, I certainly want him to improve the other aspects of his game that he is capable of improving.

 

This is exactly why your comments are stupid.

-Expecting someone to completely write off improvement in one crucial area of their game just because they haven't succeeded at it.

-The fact that he can have games and practices where he averages good percentages proves their is plenty of evidence to suggest he can.

[Miller4Prez66 545]

Yes, Mark Jackson said our problem against the Celtics was Howard being played 1on1 and averaging 22pts on 57%, and NOT Carter and Lewis being blackholes offensively and Nelson being inconsistent.

 

 

Yeah... that's it. We can't beat the Celtics!! How are we going to beat the Celtics if they continue to single cover Howard, you know? He'll just continue to score well on good efficiency.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sarcasm aside, us losing to the Celtics had almost nothing to do with Howard. Games 1 and 3 he was indeed bad offensively but it won't matter one bit if he can shoot 80% from the free throw line if our wings and Lewis can't get it together.

 

I wish I could give this a post a +100.

[Skywise316 211]

ROFL I love how the Magic-Hawks thread had nothing to do with the ATL Hawks whatsoever. :shard:

 

Remember when the Hawks used to beat us every time we played them a few years ago?? They were the next scariest team to face to Detroit.

 

How times have changed..

[KandiKane 136]

Sarcasm aside, us losing to the Celtics had almost nothing to do with Howard. Games 1 and 3 he was indeed bad offensively but it won't matter one bit if he can shoot 80% from the free throw line if our wings and Lewis can't get it together.

 

Agreed... It was not Howard that was the reason we lost to the Celtics... It was that we actually played one of the few teams who don't double Howard and thus our other players did not have the easy offense which would come against teams that have to double Howard. Once we come to facing Boston and/or lakers this will be the same result, so its up to Van Gundy to be the difference and have the players ready for not having the luck of being able to have Howard draw double teams.

 

Saying all that... I think Van Gundy has actually changed over the summer... he has lost a bit of Stubbornness and seems like he will get even more out of his players.. and I think enough to be able to go all the way.

[ThisIsTheYear 241]

-The fact that he can have games and practices where he averages good percentages proves their is plenty of evidence to suggest he can.

 

You can't arrive at the conclusion that Dwight is capable of shooting 70+% based on the premise of his "good" games alone. One can then easily make the claim that he could become a blow 50% foul shooter based on games where he goes 2-7, 3-10, 1-5, etc. I mean, the evidence is there, is it not?

 

I'll restate it once more, good percentages in practice means nil when you're placed in a foreign environment. You can't truly suggest that you have the capability of becoming a good free throw shooter. You either are, or you aren't.

[GhostAnime 50]

Sarcasm aside, us losing to the Celtics had almost nothing to do with Howard. Games 1 and 3 he was indeed bad offensively but it won't matter one bit if he can shoot 80% from the free throw line if our wings and Lewis can't get it together.

All I'm saying is that it will be hard to get things in the paint when most of our attempts to it end up being 50% free-throw shots. That then puts more pressure on Vince and Rashard to perform in compensation.

 

I really think we'd stand a much better chance of we just let foes pay for fouling Dwight. It wasn't the ONLY factor, but it was a significant factor considering you could just wall perimeter guys and foul Dwight whenever he touches the ball.

 

The Bobcats almost did the same thing, but Jameer was a life saver in that series enough for it to not matter.

 

Also yeah it's true we'd get to the penalty faster, but why was only Howard still mostly going to the line? Because regardless, the Celtics are good at not fouling (us).

 

Not the Lakers though..lol

[magicfan83 23]

I disagree. 32 free throws over 4 games is just a hair under how many he attempts in a season. Plus in the two games he attempted more then 10 (which shows he had a chance to get settled in) his percentage was horrible. It's far good enough of a sample size to start making some judgments.

 

I would love to jump on the train and get all excited about the new weapons in his arsenal. But, none of those fancy moves and work he has added in will mean anything when all an opponent has to do is wrap his arms around Dwight anytime he gets into scoring position. And it also still means that he is more of a liability late in games then he is a help on offense.

 

What was your grade in statistics?

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

What was your grade in statistics?

 

I will man up and say I never even took it. Math in general was the bane of my existence in school, I tutored my football and basketball team mates in almost every subject, but in Math I had to take remedial subjects just to get into simple College Algebra. I would have score a 1400+ on the SAT if it weren't for a horrible math grade, as I nearly got a perfect on the English portion.

 

So if my math sounds bad, that won't be surprising.

[magicfan83 23]

I will man up and say I never even took it. Math in general was the bane of my existence in school, I tutored my football and basketball team mates in almost every subject, but in Math I had to take remedial subjects just to get into simple College Algebra. I would have score a 1400+ on the SAT if it weren't for a horrible math grade, as I nearly got a perfect on the English portion.

 

So if my math sounds bad, that won't be surprising.

 

32 FTA is a very, very small sample size when you are considering the amount of attempts in Dwight's Career. If anything, all this really does is suggest that Dwight is due for a hot streak (actually it doesn't necessarily but it would take an essay to explain it) at the line because as the sample grows, the percentages gravitate towards the average. If Dwight goes out in the next game in shoots 11-13 at the line, it doesn't mean that he's improved; shooting a basketball is streaky by nature (see Eddie House). It's why Vince can be so terrible in January and come out in the preseason like he's the best player on the court.

 

It's like flipping a coin. If you flip a coin 32 times, it's pretty unlikely that you'll actually get a result that includes 16 Heads and 16 Tails. You might only get 8 Heads in a trial; you could actually get 0 Heads but that is extremely unlikely. That doesn't mean that the coin isn't weighted properly or you have perfected the art of flipping a coin and getting Tails. But if you flip that coin 320 times, you are much more likely to get a result in line with what you expect.