Religion

[Osprey 199]

It really is amazing how people can grow up from different backgrounds and view the same world through so many different lenses.

 

I grew up in a family that was Christian, but they didn't ram it down my throat at an early age. I didn't go to church every Sunday, I didn't even get Baptized.

 

However as I grew up, everywhere I looked I saw evidence of a Creator, of design. Then when I was actually old enough to understand what I was reading, the Bible struck me to the core.

 

Now that I am a math teacher, the evidence for design is even more glaring and it only reaffirms my faith in God.

[Magicman28 295]

To me, this just sounds like a bunch of mojo jojo. Us non believers (usually) are really only going to be convinced by good, empirical evidence, and even if that wasn't enough, there are some things in the books we actually disagree with whether it may be facts or even morals. Even the idea of a guy that creates me solely to love him sounds selfishly arrogant and self-absorbed. Don't take this as anything along the lines of "Oh, so you don't want to believe in him?" No, take it as something I just simply find hard to exist in an infinite being who has everything but needs mortals like us to care about what we do here. If one is out there, I doubt he cares about human affairs.

 

 

 

 

eh..Yall are still youngbucks compared to me. I got 10-12 years on yall. Most of my experiences where God has literally came to me, didn't quite happened until my mid to late 20's. What happened to me through my life was empricial evidence. I was just like yall although I believed a little more then some of yall do for certain reasons. I also would look at the planet that we live on, how it insulate us from harmful gases, filled with water, trees to filter the air, food from the ground, etc, and just couldn't think it was all done by coincendence but I still had a hard time believing 100% into the theory of God or Jesus. I never did quit asking though. I'd turn my attention away to other things which is natural for a young adult living in this world in this age but during that time, I had many crazy experiences and saw many things. It was one particular time where he really just flat out showed his presence. It was a really tough time and I needed it. Never before have I felt so unable to do anything or turn to anyone and I'm a strong man who has taken quite a bit of hits in my life. I've been through a lot but this was just something I had absolutely no control over and I never felt so weak. He came to me and gave me the sign (I know its a cliche but it is what it is) I needed. To this day, that sign is continuing. Also since then I am married with kids which relates to that experience and just reinforces my belief.

 

I understand it all sounds mojo jojo but its just my life. Maybe one day you'll get that emperical evidence. I hope it does and I hope when/if it does, you won't look back.

 

God imo, didn't create us to solely love him. I don't buy that theory at all. He wouldn't put us on this Earth with so many different personalities if he wanted us to just do that one particular thing. I think he wants us to write our own book. Some of yall don't get my "life is not a game" comment. I get what hes saying but life is not a "ultimate video game". Its just not. The latter part of his paragraph I agree with but suming it up as that is ridiculous. If you die in Halo or Call of Duty, you get an do over. Time is never of importance. Time does not pause in life. You can't save it then come back to it. Time is either coming or going. You have no control of it. So I say life is ones own book. When your gone, what do you want the book of you to say?

[Emory889 353]

youre right. praising God is only a joy to those who see where they stand before him. why would someone that cant see a need for God get anything out of praising him?

 

i have a friend who a while back was a really staunch atheist; very avid ayn randian philosopher-type. over time, he got to know some strong christians and talk with them and went on so retreats through the church. he ended up at a point where his entire belief system was challenged and he prayed that God would give him a sign that there is a reason to believe. that very day, his mother had gotten an apologetics study bible from his aunt who lives out of the state. she gave it to him because she knew he was "interested in the stuff". for him, it was the perfect reason to believe. not only did he get a bible, but one with apologetic commentary throughout. he did not come to Christ after this incident.

 

before i became a christian, i was meeting with a minister and he told me about prayer and what it was. he said it was conversing with God, and that God listens and we must also listen. later that day, i prayed to see a specific person (another christian i knew) who i hadnt spoken to in months before that, at a specific time at a specific place. and i did. it took me six months after that incident to actually believe.

 

a sign is the greatest demand of the skeptic, but not his greatest need. signs do not produce faith, but build faith that is already there. i can guarantee that there are people who can (and have and will) stand face to face with the true and living God and still not put their faith in him.

 

you want a sign that God so loves the world? he sent his only son, who died and rose again.

 

I was praying to him when I did see a need for him, when I still believed. You are right, I have no need or desire to pray to god now.

 

I am completely open to talking about religion but I don't see a scenario in which I ever become a Christian again. That's because I have way too many questions about the bible that no one on this planet can answer with anything definitive. Sure, someone can put their spin on why God had Jonah swallowed by a whale for failing to obey his orders despite the fact that Christianity states that everyone has free will. The problem is it's just an opinion. There are some opinions that have been regurgitated so often in sermons and books that the interpretations have become gospel themselves. I'm not that hard headed. If people were actually getting raised from the dead, I would be looking for answers really quick. I had a similar conversation with my mother the other day. She's obviously concerned for my soul and asked me if I would believe when the rapture occured. Ugh, yeah! If several billion people vanished off the planet, leading to one of the worst days in human history, then yes I'm going to believe. Hell, I'll be forming my own church. I guess my problem is that all of these earth shattering miracles occured all of the time back in bibilical days to reinforce people's faith and god can't be bothered anymore with that kind of stuff now.

 

Sorry buddy, Jesus dying doesn't count as a sign of anything. There is no proof of anyone sending him and only contradictory records of his existance written centuries after his death.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

eh..Yall are still youngbucks compared to me. I got 10-12 years on yall. Most of my experiences where God has literally came to me, didn't quite happened until my mid to late 20's. What happened to me through my life was empricial evidence. I was just like yall although I believed a little more then some of yall do for certain reasons. I also would look at the planet that we live on, how it insulate us from harmful gases, filled with water, trees to filter the air, food from the ground, etc, and just couldn't think it was all done by coincendence but I still had a hard time believing 100% into the theory of God or Jesus. I never did quit asking though. I'd turn my attention away to other things which is natural for a young adult living in this world in this age but during that time, I had many crazy experiences and saw many things. It was one particular time where he really just flat out showed his presence. It was a really tough time and I needed it. Never before have I felt so unable to do anything or turn to anyone and I'm a strong man who has taken quite a bit of hits in my life. I've been through a lot but this was just something I had absolutely no control over and I never felt so weak. He came to me and gave me the sign (I know its a cliche but it is what it is) I needed. To this day, that sign is continuing. Also since then I am married with kids which relates to that experience and just reinforces my belief.

 

I understand it all sounds mojo jojo but its just my life. Maybe one day you'll get that emperical evidence. I hope it does and I hope when/if it does, you won't look back.

 

God imo, didn't create us to solely love him. I don't buy that theory at all. He wouldn't put us on this Earth with so many different personalities if he wanted us to just do that one particular thing. I think he wants us to write our own book. Some of yall don't get my "life is not a game" comment. I get what hes saying but life is not a "ultimate video game". Its just not. The latter part of his paragraph I agree with but suming it up as that is ridiculous. If you die in Halo or Call of Duty, you get an do over. Time is never of importance. Time does not pause in life. You can't save it then come back to it. Time is either coming or going. You have no control of it. So I say life is ones own book. When your gone, what do you want the book of you to say?

 

Three things:

 

1. It's spelled "empirical", not "emperical" or "empricial".

 

2. Based on your post, I'm pretty sure that empirical doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

3. To play devil's advocate for a second, evolutionary theory states that life evolved on Earth precisely because of the reasons you listed, as well as countless others. According to the theory, had one or more of those things been different, life would likely have evolved differently, or perhaps not evolved at all. That theory makes humanity staggeringly insignificant, but it does explain how life can exist on Earth without the need of a God.

[Emory889 353]

eh..Yall are still youngbucks compared to me. I got 10-12 years on yall. Most of my experiences where God has literally came to me, didn't quite happened until my mid to late 20's. What happened to me through my life was empricial evidence. I was just like yall although I believed a little more then some of yall do for certain reasons. I also would look at the planet that we live on, how it insulate us from harmful gases, filled with water, trees to filter the air, food from the ground, etc, and just couldn't think it was all done by coincendence but I still had a hard time believing 100% into the theory of God or Jesus. I never did quit asking though. I'd turn my attention away to other things which is natural for a young adult living in this world in this age but during that time, I had many crazy experiences and saw many things. It was one particular time where he really just flat out showed his presence. It was a really tough time and I needed it. Never before have I felt so unable to do anything or turn to anyone and I'm a strong man who has taken quite a bit of hits in my life. I've been through a lot but this was just something I had absolutely no control over and I never felt so weak. He came to me and gave me the sign (I know its a cliche but it is what it is) I needed. To this day, that sign is continuing. Also since then I am married with kids which relates to that experience and just reinforces my belief.

 

I understand it all sounds mojo jojo but its just my life. Maybe one day you'll get that emperical evidence. I hope it does and I hope when/if it does, you won't look back.

 

God imo, didn't create us to solely love him. I don't buy that theory at all. He wouldn't put us on this Earth with so many different personalities if he wanted us to just do that one particular thing. I think he wants us to write our own book. Some of yall don't get my "life is not a game" comment. I get what hes saying but life is not a "ultimate video game". Its just not. The latter part of his paragraph I agree with but suming it up as that is ridiculous. If you die in Halo or Call of Duty, you get an do over. Time is never of importance. Time does not pause in life. You can't save it then come back to it. Time is either coming or going. You have no control of it. So I say life is ones own book. When your gone, what do you want the book of you to say?

 

I want it to say that I didn't waste my life believing in something that doesn't exist. I'm not sure what age has to do with believing or nonbelieving. I've seen some very devout teenagers/young people in their early 20s and most of the Aeithiests I know are middle aged. I doubt it was intention but your post just comes off as condescending. By the way, I'm almost 31.

[Emory889 353]

I would like to add that simply because I don't know how something occurs doesn't mean it's proof that God exists. I have very little knowledge of how a microwave works but it doesn't mean it is divinely inspired. It's ok to say, "I don't know." I think most of the religions on this planet were created because people have a hard time with that phrase.

[Magicman28 295]

Three things:

 

1. It's spelled "empirical", not "emperical" or "empricial".

 

2. Based on your post, I'm pretty sure that empirical doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

3. To play devil's advocate for a second, evolutionary theory states that life evolved on Earth precisely because of the reasons you listed, as well as countless others. According to the theory, had one or more of those things been different, life would likely have evolved differently, or perhaps not evolved at all. That theory makes humanity staggeringly insignificant, but it does explain how life can exist on Earth without the need of a God.

 

Normal message board fashion. Post about an typo then say it doesn't mean what I think it means. LOL. Empirical: Relating to or based on experience and observation rather than on theory or principal. I listed certain life experiences that weren't based on theory or thoughts or beliefs but just experiences. I think that pretty much shows I know what Empirical means. Don't let the typo fool ya.

 

The problem with evolutionary theory is doesn't get to the source. I believe in a form of evolution. No, not that we came from monkey's or the big bang but I do believed we've evolved but I don't believe that particular theory replaces common sense. I've been down that road and science imo, has never been able to answer the source of all things. They try and try but they either change it up with a new theory or they just beat around the bush. Did you know btw, that some of the great minds in science are believers?

[Magicman28 295]

I want it to say that I didn't waste my life believing in something that doesn't exist. I'm not sure what age has to do with believing or nonbelieving. I've seen some very devout teenagers/young people in their early 20s and most of the Aeithiests I know are middle aged. I doubt it was intention but your post just comes off as condescending. By the way, I'm almost 31.

 

 

Age has a lot to do with it. Your telling me you look at life the same at 31 then you did 21?

 

If you doubt it was my intention (it wasn't) then why even bother? You know it wasn't my intention since the person I responded to, his profile says hes 20 years old.

 

You say it doesn't exist. Just wondering, what life experiences have you had that is evident it doesn't?

[Emory889 353]

Normal message board fashion. Post about an typo then say it doesn't mean what I think it means. LOL. Empirical: Relating to or based on experience and observation rather than on theory or principal. I listed certain life experiences that weren't based on theory or thoughts or beliefs but just experiences. I think that pretty much shows I know what Empirical means. Don't let the typo fool ya.

 

The problem with evolutionary theory is doesn't get to the source. I believe in a form of evolution. No, not that we came from monkey's or the big bang but I do believed we've evolved but I don't believe that particular theory replaces common sense. I've been down that road and science imo, has never been able to answer the source of all things. They try and try but they either change it up with a new theory or they just beat around the bush. Did you know btw, that some of the great minds in science are believers?

 

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Science can't prove 100% how we came to be so there must be a god! No, it simply means that we don't know. It doesn't become logical to jump to a unproven conclusion to answer a unanswered question. And no, while there are some very intelligent Christian scientists, they are a very small minority.

[Magicman28 295]

I would like to add that simply because I don't know how something occurs doesn't mean it's proof that God exists. I have very little knowledge of how a microwave works but it doesn't mean it is divinely inspired. It's ok to say, "I don't know." I think most of the religions on this planet were created because people have a hard time with that phrase.

 

 

Just because you don't know doesn't mean he doesn't exist lol.

 

You don't know how a microwave works?

 

Your right though. Its good to say "I don't know". That wasn't really the big issue for me. Why did I exist. Why am I here. I wondered but that to me wasn't why I chose to believe.

[Magicman28 295]

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Science can't prove 100% how we came to be so there must be a god! No, it simply means that we don't know. It doesn't become logical to jump to a unproven conclusion to answer a unanswered question. And no, while there are some very intelligent Christian scientists, they are a very small minority.

 

 

Science can't prove 100% a lot of things especially when its outside the planet we live on.

 

I never "jumped to a unproven conclusion". My chosen belief is through years of ups and downs and experiences. I think I made that perfectly clear.

 

Small minority but I think quality over quantity is always more ideal.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Normal message board fashion. Post about an typo then say it doesn't mean what I think it means. LOL. Empirical: Relating to or based on experience and observation rather than on theory or principal. I listed certain life experiences that weren't based on theory or thoughts or beliefs but just experiences. I think that pretty much shows I know what Empirical means. Don't let the typo fool ya.

 

The problem with evolutionary theory is doesn't get to the source. I believe in a form of evolution. No, not that we came from monkey's or the big bang but I do believed we've evolved but I don't believe that particular theory replaces common sense. I've been down that road and science imo, has never been able to answer the source of all things. They try and try but they either change it up with a new theory or they just beat around the bush. Did you know btw, that some of the great minds in science are believers?

 

The word empirical denotes information gained by means of observation, experience, or experiment.[1] A central concept in science and the scientific method is that all evidence must be empirical, or empirically based, that is, dependent on evidence or consequences that are observable by the senses. It is usually differentiated from the philosophic usage of empiricism by the use of the adjective empirical or the adverb empirically. The term refers to the use of working hypotheses that are testable using observation or experiment. In this sense of the word, scientific statements are subject to and derived from our experiences or observations. Empirical data are data that are produced by experiment or observation.

 

Science (generalized from the evolution topic) provides plausible theories that are constantly peer reviewed and put up toward criticism. Trying to set up a complete account of what happened hundreds of billions of years ago is extremely difficult. We have an incomplete account of "the big bang theory" by what we can observe currently through astronomy. Knowledge gained from Astronomy changes literally month to month. Its going to be some time before we have the technology to definitively state the origin of the Universe.

 

Evolution is observable. We know definitively it happens. We didn't evolve from monkeys, per se, but we did have a common ancestor. Pretty much some primal foraging pack animal with the ability to manipulate objects with our hands.