Religion

[Optimist Prime 197]

I've been using it for four and almost five. :svgsad:

 

Your still my evil twin brother till then.

 

:panicworker:

 

ok. maybe ill just have to get an avatar that says "humility" :creaturedance:

[~O~ 565]

I like having a forum alter ego. :happypuppy: As long as your not Chris Curran, I'm fine with it. Your totally Chris Curran aren't you.

[Emory889 353]

Two Dubs on the message board is just too confusing.

[Magicman28 295]

I want to try to be as respectful as possible when I say this.

 

First of all, I'm an Atheist (weak version).

 

Second, my main reason for posting this is towards the people who are trying to give advice for those who don't believe by saying things like "trust in God," "have faith," or even "Ask God he will answer you."

 

One thing you folks have to understand is that this will never work for skeptics. I'm not trying to be offensive, but that's just the way it is.

 

God will never speak to me. He will never show me any signs. He would only exist to me as much as I pretend to think he exists. I assume this works all the same for other non-believers. It would be akin to telling us "Ask the milk jug and he will answer you."

 

Not to mention that your god isn't the only one being advertised. How do you think we feel when we see thousands of other religions saying the same things?

 

The more you attempt to convert us, the farther away we tend to drift organized religion (personal theism is a different story, though).

 

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way but I don't want to convert you nor do I really care if you believe or not. I know your responding to MagicAtic but I just want to let you know that.

 

I'm a Christian because of things that have happened in my life that nothing else can be explained but God's and Jesus's presence. If you like me to share I will but I tend not to share these things because simply, I don't think you'd understand or relate until it happens to you. Honestly though, I'm glad your comfortable with what you do or don't believe in.

 

I will say that God will speak only when you start listening and again, not saying this because I want you to believe but simply because I know he did for me and he can do it for me, he can do it for anyone.

[Magicman28 295]

Well, no higher being took away my dad's cancer despite having the complete opposite lifestyle than someone who usually gets cancer.

 

But i went to the laundromat the other day and forgot dryer sheets. Then some guy thought my dryer was his and put a dryer sheet in my dryer. So I guess I can't say he never got me anything.

 

 

In all honesty I just dont need the extra comfort that religion provides. I dont need an afterlife. I can accept a finite existence. I don't even want to be buried. There doesn't need to be a larger picture for me.

 

My parents need a larger picture right now, but not me.

 

Life is the ultimate video game/sport/whatever metaphor you really want to use there. I'm content with competing with others, cultivating my own happiness, making my friends happy, and enjoying life's experiences. I feel fortunate for my existence, especially one with the amount of opportunities set before me. I was born healthy in a good family that is part of a time/country where pretty much any freedom or choice i wish to make is possible. If you live life the way it should be lived and make sure you treat others with the respect and dignity they deserve then thats all that really matters. Why bother attaching devotion to a metaphysical being that may or may not exist to something that you can enjoy without it?

 

 

 

Life is no game man. You might be happy. You might got everything you want from life and thats contentment and great but life is not a video game. Life can hit hard. QUICK. Think about the hundreds of fire fighters that died trying to save lives 9 years ago and their families that live on. You think it was a game to them? You say your Dad past away from cancer (sorry to hear that btw), do you think cancer is a game? My old man is going through Parkinson's and Heart Disease and I can tell you first hand, its no game.

 

From my perspective, I chose to be attached to that devotion because if I wouldn't, I'd be pretty damn stupid since it was staring at me like a big huge neon sign.

[Emory889 353]

Life is no game man. You might be happy. You might got everything you want from life and thats contentment and great but life is not a video game. Life can hit hard. QUICK. Think about the hundreds of fire fighters that died trying to save lives 9 years ago and their families that live on. You think it was a game to them? You say your Dad past away from cancer (sorry to hear that btw), do you think cancer is a game? My old man is going through Parkinson's and Heart Disease and I can tell you first hand, its no game.

 

From my perspective, I chose to be attached to that devotion because if I wouldn't, I'd be pretty damn stupid since it was staring at me like a big huge neon sign.

 

You completely missed the message he was trying to convey. He is saying that he tries to enjoy life as much as possible because it is precious and you never know when it might come to an end. A point you reinforced while thinking you were disagreeing with him.

[GhostAnime 50]

I will say that God will speak only when you start listening and again, not saying this because I want you to believe but simply because I know he did for me and he can do it for me, he can do it for anyone.

 

To me, this just sounds like a bunch of mojo jojo. Us non believers (usually) are really only going to be convinced by good, empirical evidence, and even if that wasn't enough, there are some things in the books we actually disagree with whether it may be facts or even morals. Even the idea of a guy that creates me solely to love him sounds selfishly arrogant and self-absorbed. Don't take this as anything along the lines of "Oh, so you don't want to believe in him?" No, take it as something I just simply find hard to exist in an infinite being who has everything but needs mortals like us to care about what we do here. If one is out there, I doubt he cares about human affairs.

 

Life is no game man. You might be happy. You might got everything you want from life and thats contentment and great but life is not a video game. Life can hit hard. QUICK. Think about the hundreds of fire fighters that died trying to save lives 9 years ago and their families that live on. You think it was a game to them? You say your Dad past away from cancer (sorry to hear that btw), do you think cancer is a game? My old man is going through Parkinson's and Heart Disease and I can tell you first hand, its no game.

I don't see what the point of this message was even if you misinterpreted it. Life can hit you hard whether you believe in God or not. What's your point?

 

Besides, life practically is a game or whatever else he listed along with that. If a god does exist, that's the way he wanted it. Kill or be killed. Do or die. Some people are just plain *****ed beyond their control and people like us are lucky to be born in a country such as this. Even time period is significant for many of us depending on your cultural or racial background.

[OrlandoNKentucky 54]

To me, this just sounds like a bunch of mojo jojo. Us non believers (usually) are really only going to be convinced by good, empirical evidence, and even if that wasn't enough, there are some things in the books we actually disagree with whether it may be facts or even morals. Even the idea of a guy that creates me solely to love him sounds selfishly arrogant and self-absorbed. Don't take this as anything along the lines of "Oh, so you don't want to believe in him?" No, take it as something I just simply find hard to exist in an infinite being who has everything but needs mortals like us to care about what we do here. If one is out there, I doubt he cares about human affairs.

 

 

 

Don't know if you are interested to continue a conversation in this thought. That Jesus/God is self-absorbed.

 

http://vimeo.com/9450037

 

This pastor preaches a sermon called "Is Jesus an Ego-Maniac?" And it sort of handles that issue. If you'd like to get an opinion on that viewpoint from a person much wiser than me, thats what I would suggest. If you do watch it, let me know what you think .

[GhostAnime 50]

Don't know if you are interested to continue a conversation in this thought. That Jesus/God is self-absorbed.

 

http://vimeo.com/9450037

 

This pastor preaches a sermon called "Is Jesus an Ego-Maniac?" And it sort of handles that issue. If you'd like to get an opinion on that viewpoint from a person much wiser than me, thats what I would suggest. If you do watch it, let me know what you think .

Read the transcript. I'm not sure where the solution was in that. It seems like he said something like "Praising him gives us joy, so why not anyway?"

 

Then I see a bunch of Bible verses and honestly, I don't look at the Bible the same way a Christian would. If you have to look at other verses to combat one verse, that just tells me either someone prefers a part of the Bible over another or that whoever wrote it is just some regular human being wanting to control others. If somebody responds to this post with Bible verses, I'm not even going to bother. I debate concepts and central ideas. What one verse says isn't going to change a damn thing.

 

Overall, it doesn't answer why a supreme perfect being would even demand praise or be jealous. If you suggest the reason is because it makes us happy.. does it really? For every single person in the world? Did he make us in a way that we are influenced to *WANT* to praise him? Then that would make us robots and him even MORE of an egomaniac. If you go the other route and say that "it is up to the individual", then he can't blame non-believers for simply being born in a different country or just not naturally feeling happy praising somebody like this.

 

And this is why I prefer personal theism over organized religion. Personal theism allows a person to construct a god that doesn't sound 'ancient' like this. All these ancient gods have the same characteristics. They demand your praise. You're worthless without them. What you do in your bedroom matters. In today's world, it makes much more sense to me that an infinite being is probably more into experimenting and less interested in judging. Maybe not even experimenting; perhaps he just.. doesn't care. Maybe there is some way for him to judge, but it isn't in the bedroom, or whether you step in some house to sing songs about him. Maybe it's by your heart and heart alone. For all we know, non-believers are the ones he love because they're living their life and believing in what they believe because of them and that makes them more likely to be altruistic. They refuse to believe in something just because everybody says so. They believe in what works and most of all, they believe in themselves. If a god would send a person like that to hell, then be my guest; It'll probably be a party!

[Emory889 353]

I can say with 100% certainity that praising god does not make everyone happy. It made me incredibly miserable. I spent the better portion of my youth hoping and literally praying for any sign from god that he existed and cared about me. I wanted to believe because that is how I was raised. It would have been convenient to have remained a Christian. Of course, that never happened and as I got older and read the bible with a more discerning eye it quickly became clear why.

 

That does raise another question though. In the bible there are thousands of stories where god worked miracles of spectacular nature. He made it so that the son didn't set for 3 days. Jesus walked on water and fed thousands with a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish. People were raised from the dead. He routinely spoke to people in a way that would cause everyone in the room to tremble. He's apparently not above showing his power. So, why did he stop? If god really does love us and the only way to save us from an eternity of torture is for us to believe in him, then why doesn't he throw us a bone anymore and help reinforce that faith? I don't think I'm asking that much.

 

And no, Benny Hinn miracle crusades do not count.

[BMP 424]

I can say with 100% certainity that praising god does not make everyone happy. It made me incredibly miserable. I spent the better portion of my youth hoping and literally praying for any sign from god that he existed and cared about me. I wanted to believe because that is how I was raised. It would have been convenient to have remained a Christian. Of course, that never happened and as I got older and read the bible with a more discerning eye it quickly became clear why.

 

That does raise another question though. In the bible there are thousands of stories where god worked miracles of spectacular nature. He made it so that the son didn't set for 3 days. Jesus walked on water and fed thousands with a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish. People were raised from the dead. He routinely spoke to people in a way that would cause everyone in the room to tremble. He's apparently not above showing his power. So, why did he stop? If god really does love us and the only way to save us from an eternity of torture is for us to believe in him, then why doesn't he throw us a bone anymore and help reinforce that faith? I don't think I'm asking that much.

 

And no, Benny Hinn miracle crusades do not count.

 

Pretty much all of this. I grew up as a catholic and until I was around 12, my parents would make me go to church and youth groups. When I was younger, I would really believe in all that stuff, but as I grew older and started to read the stuff on my own, I started to really question the whole thing. And the more questioned, the more I wanted to read into it, and the more it drew me away from it.

[Optimist Prime 197]

I can say with 100% certainity that praising god does not make everyone happy. It made me incredibly miserable. I spent the better portion of my youth hoping and literally praying for any sign from god that he existed and cared about me. I wanted to believe because that is how I was raised. It would have been convenient to have remained a Christian. Of course, that never happened and as I got older and read the bible with a more discerning eye it quickly became clear why.

 

That does raise another question though. In the bible there are thousands of stories where god worked miracles of spectacular nature. He made it so that the son didn't set for 3 days. Jesus walked on water and fed thousands with a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish. People were raised from the dead. He routinely spoke to people in a way that would cause everyone in the room to tremble. He's apparently not above showing his power. So, why did he stop? If god really does love us and the only way to save us from an eternity of torture is for us to believe in him, then why doesn't he throw us a bone anymore and help reinforce that faith? I don't think I'm asking that much.

 

And no, Benny Hinn miracle crusades do not count.

 

youre right. praising God is only a joy to those who see where they stand before him. why would someone that cant see a need for God get anything out of praising him?

 

i have a friend who a while back was a really staunch atheist; very avid ayn randian philosopher-type. over time, he got to know some strong christians and talk with them and went on so retreats through the church. he ended up at a point where his entire belief system was challenged and he prayed that God would give him a sign that there is a reason to believe. that very day, his mother had gotten an apologetics study bible from his aunt who lives out of the state. she gave it to him because she knew he was "interested in the stuff". for him, it was the perfect reason to believe. not only did he get a bible, but one with apologetic commentary throughout. he did not come to Christ after this incident.

 

before i became a christian, i was meeting with a minister and he told me about prayer and what it was. he said it was conversing with God, and that God listens and we must also listen. later that day, i prayed to see a specific person (another christian i knew) who i hadnt spoken to in months before that, at a specific time at a specific place. and i did. it took me six months after that incident to actually believe.

 

a sign is the greatest demand of the skeptic, but not his greatest need. signs do not produce faith, but build faith that is already there. i can guarantee that there are people who can (and have and will) stand face to face with the true and living God and still not put their faith in him.

 

you want a sign that God so loves the world? he sent his only son, who died and rose again.