Official referee venting thread.

[magic01 0]

2 types of fouls on dwight that I don't get - #1 dwight is trying to post up- you are taught to make a wide stance and put your ams up to make a big target for a pass. dwight puts his arms up and makes contact with the defender b/c he is fouling dwights back/reaching..and its a foul on dwight...its not like dwight is swinging back with his arms..he is just raising them to catch a pass- this is a foul on the defender..

 

#2 another player tangles their arms around dwights arms.. then when dwight tries to get an opponents arms off him, its a foul on dwight..makes no sense..

[Bishop303 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Nyce_1:

I would think so because that would be 1 less set of eyes to see & call every little tick tack foul. It'll have its pros and cons, but anything is better than this.

 

Makes you wonder how things would've turned out with the replacement refs earlier.

 

I went to all the exhibition games and trust me, you don't want to go through a season with those guys. They routinely made calls that I've literally never seen before in twenty plus years of watching NBA basketball. Twice, I saw them blow a whistle, and after conferencing and realizing that no one knew what the call was, decided a jump ball was the best course of action. Apparently they'd never heard of an inadvertent whistle.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

What about removing the review of film for team tendencies and including the review of missed or bad calls.

 

Absolutely! It is despicable that there is no accountability program for refs. They should be reprimanded, then fined, then suspended for the large quantity of missed calls they perpetrate on the game.

 

Can you imagine if somebody started a website and chronicled every game and every referee's tendancy toward making bad calls? If we can look at statistical metrics that incorporate every aspect of play from a player's perspective, why shouldn't we be able to do the same with the officials that have a growing role in impacting the game?

 

You would need a small fleet of people who would be willing to help, or a couple of independently wealthy guys with nothing better to do. Next, you need them to get involved with the media events the NBA puts on in the off season to educate them in teh art of being a ref. I don't remember off hand who wrote about it last season, but one of the ESPN guys was there and was talking about how eye opening it is, because they would talk about specific rules, watch film, and then discuss individual calls and some player tendencies.

 

Could you imagine compiling the data to describe each and every bad and/or missed call by the refs, which call specifically was missed, and whether or not it was their assignment, or if they were just on the crew in general (to account for different ref's watching for different things).

 

You could break it down into an overall ref grading system, but you could also look at each individual ref and see what types of calls they routinely miss, and take those opportunities to educate them on specific rules.

 

Add in who the call was on if it was bad, or who it should have been on it was missed, and you can start looking for bias against players.

 

Does Dwight get called for certain offensive calls by pretty much everyone? Maybe ref X routinely misses a specific type of call, but makes a significant number above his average against a particular player.

 

I can't imagine being tasked with actually reviewing tape and coming up with all these missed or bad calls.

[PNuT1423 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Bishop303:

quote:

Originally posted by Nyce_1:

I would think so because that would be 1 less set of eyes to see & call every little tick tack foul. It'll have its pros and cons, but anything is better than this.

 

Makes you wonder how things would've turned out with the replacement refs earlier.

 

I went to all the exhibition games and trust me, you don't want to go through a season with those guys. They routinely made calls that I've literally never seen before in twenty plus years of watching NBA basketball. Twice, I saw them blow a whistle, and after conferencing and realizing that no one knew what the call was, decided a jump ball was the best course of action. Apparently they'd never heard of an inadvertent whistle.

 

that's conspiracy theory number 34, the nba purposly gave us those even worse refs to see what 'it would look like.'

 

but in turn, during the lockout of the refs, you'd think one of them would come out and say something if there was such thing as temp control... or that might have been their threat to stern to end the strike alltogether.

 

i'd personally like to stop the consparicy theories, but the nba conducts itself like it's the third reich sometimes when it comes to secrecy and who has ultimate control over what, so we might as well bash them for it.

[NotByChoice 2]

It does seem like watching these past two games that the league really has Dwight under a microscope. I don't think their is a conspiracy or an agenda by the league but I think it's obvious things were discussed by the officials before the playoffs because they seem to be really watching Dwight closely.

 

Again I don't think they are trying to "control" or "manage" Dwight but I just have this feeling they are taking special care making sure Dwight doesn't get away with anything. I think it's leading to some anticipation whistles more then anything else.

[A BETTER DJ 12]

The NBA fines players (see Sheed $35K recently) for publicly criticizing the refs for bad calls. The refs that make those calls should pay those fines if it is found that the player's complaints are justified! Let them pay a few $25-35K fines and maybe they'll do a better job!

[Butterfly 3]

The reffing has been horrible in this series. These bogus fouls called on Dwight are annoying. I am sure that Van Gundy and Matt Barnes will be fined for criticizing the refs. I think the calls will be real bad Saturday. Larry Brown was complaining about the fact the Cats did not go to the FT line much.

[Chaz 0]

quote:

Originally posted by AQUARIUM61:

The reffing has been horrible in this series. These bogus fouls called on Dwight are annoying. I am sure that Van Gundy and Matt Barnes will be fined for criticizing the refs. I think the calls will be real bad Saturday. Larry Brown was complaining about the fact the Cats did not go to the FT line much.

 

NEW YORK, April 22, 2010 -- Orlando Magic forward Matt Barnes and head coach Stan Van Gundy have each been fined $35,000 for publicly criticizing game officials, it was announced today by Stu Jackson, NBA Executive Vice President, Basketball Operations.

 

Stan and Matt Fined

 

There we go, as predicted.

[Natesroom 197]

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

What about removing the review of film for team tendencies and including the review of missed or bad calls.

 

Absolutely! It is despicable that there is no accountability program for refs. They should be reprimanded, then fined, then suspended for the large quantity of missed calls they perpetrate on the game.

 

Can you imagine if somebody started a website and chronicled every game and every referee's tendancy toward making bad calls? If we can look at statistical metrics that incorporate every aspect of play from a player's perspective, why shouldn't we be able to do the same with the officials that have a growing role in impacting the game?

 

You would need a small fleet of people who would be willing to help, or a couple of independently wealthy guys with nothing better to do. Next, you need them to get involved with the media events the NBA puts on in the off season to educate them in teh art of being a ref. I don't remember off hand who wrote about it last season, but one of the ESPN guys was there and was talking about how eye opening it is, because they would talk about specific rules, watch film, and then discuss individual calls and some player tendencies.

 

Could you imagine compiling the data to describe each and every bad and/or missed call by the refs, which call specifically was missed, and whether or not it was their assignment, or if they were just on the crew in general (to account for different ref's watching for different things).

 

You could break it down into an overall ref grading system, but you could also look at each individual ref and see what types of calls they routinely miss, and take those opportunities to educate them on specific rules.

 

Add in who the call was on if it was bad, or who it should have been on it was missed, and you can start looking for bias against players.

 

Does Dwight get called for certain offensive calls by pretty much everyone? Maybe ref X routinely misses a specific type of call, but makes a significant number above his average against a particular player.

 

I can't imagine being tasked with actually reviewing tape and coming up with all these missed or bad calls.

 

No i know Echo... you would definaterly need at least 6 minimum dedicated individuals who are knowledgable about the rules and would watcht he tape and independantly score each game

 

you would also have to partition out the teams like 5 teams per person that would watch all 82 games, and mark apropriately. The good things is that with technology it makes it easier to do on you own time and slow down and replay.

 

I would start with just fouls actually called and review from there, then when you get more ppl you would be able to add, blatant fouls not called (though that is subjective)

 

There is a referee video rulebook on the nba.com website that you can watch what they call a hop step correct and what isnt, charging is/isnt so on and so forth. makes it easier to justify and clarify the rules.

 

The goal would be to get 32 ppl individually doing each teams games then its not such a workload for just 4 ppl. The bigger it gets the more ppl could go back and watch footage from previous years of the same ref and compile that into data also.

 

Im just thinking about how the rockets GM thought up a good formula and stuff for his data tracking and look where thats gone.

 

Something like this could theoretically impc tthe game enough where Coachs actually start cross referencing the webistes stats and then quoting them in a press conference... Van gundy says: "Salvatore is know to call illegal screens on average 6.5 times a game and calls on average 95% of the time against the current leading team...just check www.RefereeReplay.com theres the facts"

 

I can see it going the same route as Larry Coons Salary Cap FAQ...

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by AcuWill:

quote:

Originally posted by MMacOH:

Supposedly the efs are reviewed on a game by game basis, but who knows wther this is true.

 

The refs are who they are. They make bad calls and every fan believes his team deserved more calls. No one ever thinks the refs were good.

 

Blaming the refs is a weak excuse though. Teams need to adapt to how the refs are calling a game and calls tend to balance each other out.

 

Let's look at Howard. There are some night where the refs will let him jump and challenge shots in the paint and other where they won't. He needs to adapt to how the refs are calling him. If he can't play physical then he needs to play smarter. Get himself out of the charge zone, set his feet and take a charge. It sounds crazy since he is so physically dominate, but sometimes that physicality hinders him.

HOw can Dwight adapt to the refs calling fouls where he makes no foul whatsoever.

 

For example, he made a clean block on Wallace last night. What should he do? No longer block shots? Not go to the game?

 

Or the refs are calling fouls when players flop. So what should one do, no longer put themselves in any situation where a player can flop? How do you do that?

 

This is really where the problem is, when the ref's call games like the past 2 Dwight has no clue how to play. We aren't talking about an adjustment to whether they are allowing physical play or not, they aren't allowing him to play any sort of real defense. They ref him into basically being a warm body on the floor. At least with the changes to eliminate perimeter defense they explained what you could and could not do, how are you supposed to plan for this nonsense? Do we have to study film of ref's now on top of the other team?

 

Stan and Matt were just fined 35k a piece for criticizing the ref's. Matt for saying he hopes the refs will let Dwight play and be a little physical and stop with the tic-tac fouls. Then the whole Dwight gets no respect from the refs thing. This is what qualifies as criticism now?

 

Stan said Van Gundy said:

[You're Fat, Pat! 98]

Orlando Sentinel is reporting that the NBA is fining the 17,461 fans in attendance of Wednesday night's game $50 each, due to their "Refs You Suck!" chant.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by You're Fat, Pat!:

Orlando Sentinel is reporting that the NBA is fining the 17,461 fans in attendance of Wednesday night's game $50 each, due to their "Refs You Suck!" chant.

 

I heard they fined you $25 for saying that.