With Nelson (20-12)...With J. Will (13-4) Sentinel

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

Most of Hedo's "created shots" came off the pick and roll, not off isolations. I was separating the two mentally, but if you weren't doing that, then yes, I'll concede the point that Hedo could create off the pick and roll.

 

His attempts to create off isolations, however, typically ended in turnovers, Turk-o-flails, and shots so forced VC on a bad day would see them and say: "Jesus, why would you shoot that?".

 

How many iso creations (not off of pick and roll plays) does Jameer participate in?

 

Listen, I'm not saying that Hedo is Kobe. He clearly is not. I hated his game. But to say that this team did not have anybody to create shots in Jameer's absence last year while pointing at VC this year as the player that DOES that is crazy.

 

Jameer is surprisingly competent at creating in ISO situations(or at least was, preinjury). He has a quick first step, is great at avoiding blocks inside, and his jumpshot is quick enough and good enough that defenders have to devote more time than they'd like respecting it. There was a noticeable difference between his ability to Iso and Hedo's ability for same, which is why, in my opinion, Orlando's struggles in the 4th quarters last season were so much more pronounced with Rafer than they were with Nelson.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

Jameer is surprisingly competent at creating in ISO situations(or at least was, preinjury). He has a quick first step, is great at avoiding blocks inside, and his jumpshot is quick enough and good enough that defenders have to devote more time than they'd like respecting it. There was a noticeable difference between his ability to Iso and Hedo's ability for same, which is why, in my opinion, Orlando's struggles in the 4th quarters last season were so much more pronounced with Rafer than they were with Nelson.

 

The portion that is bolded is what this entire discussion hinges upon. Obviously if Jameer was to remain healthy there would be no arguement of whether he or his backup would be better suited to run the offense.

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

Jameer is surprisingly competent at creating in ISO situations(or at least was, preinjury). He has a quick first step, is great at avoiding blocks inside, and his jumpshot is quick enough and good enough that defenders have to devote more time than they'd like respecting it. There was a noticeable difference between his ability to Iso and Hedo's ability for same, which is why, in my opinion, Orlando's struggles in the 4th quarters last season were so much more pronounced with Rafer than they were with Nelson.

 

The portion that is bolded is what this entire discussion hinges upon. Obviously if Jameer was to remain healthy there would be no arguement of whether he or his backup would be better suited to run the offense.

 

That isn't true. Jameer's been attacked by this message board since his rookie season. The argument has been getting made for years.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

That's why I tossed it in, Smack.

 

I just don't get the need to pull stats like the record thing(which is hinged in large part on the stretch where we lost 7 of 9, in which Jwill, like most everyone else, played like wet *** during the 7 losses) to make it seem like Nelson has been terrible and Jwill is the point guard Voltron. Hell, in the 7 of 9 stretch, Nelson was one of the few playerso n the team playing even passably.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

That isn't true. Jameer's been attacked by this message board since his rookie season. The argument has been getting made for years.

 

I could care less what the board has been saying for years. The argument I am making hinges upon his injuries the last two years and the virtual similarities in team success whether Jameer runs the point or one of our other fill-ins.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

That's why I tossed it in, Smack.

 

I just don't get the need to pull stats like the record thing(which is hinged in large part on the stretch where we lost 7 of 9, in which Jwill, like most everyone else, played like wet *** during the 7 losses) to make it seem like Nelson has been terrible and Jwill is the point guard Voltron. Hell, in the 7 of 9 stretch, Nelson was one of the few playerso n the team playing even passably.

 

This is my original post on this topic:

 

quote:

Jameer's injury history is scary, and gets magnified further by how well the Magic play in his absence. As much as Jammer means to the current and future success of this team, it simply can't be ignored that the Magic have played at a very high level without him in two consecutive seasons, while replacing him with two PGs on the downside of their careers.

 

I only provided stats in rebuttal to other stats that I felt were a tad misleading (like including the 4 losses in the Finals for Rafer's total W-L, while leaving the Finals out of Jameer's W-L on the season even though team failure seemed to be linked more to Jameer's increased minutes per game).

[BMP 424]

Are you talking about the game where the team shot an incredible 62%+ from the field? That had nothing to do with Alston, except that maybe he wasn't shooting 38% like most of the playoffs.

 

 

I can understand being worried about Jameer's injuries, but to say we aren't a better team when he's healthy is just ludicrous.

[TheRevTy 6]

Just to clear something up:

 

Medically, there is no such thing as 'injury prone'. You cannot naturally be more susceptible to injury than anyone else. Sure, there are factors that may contribute to one person getting injured more often than others (poor diet, improper warm-up, carrying too much weight, other pre-existing condition such as scoliosis, etc), but naturally, one person cannot be more injury prone than another. Now, you can have an injury that isn't rehabbed properly and thus never gets the chance to heal, but even that, in time, will work itself out under proper circumstances (See Hill, Grant).

 

Has Jameer been strangely bitten by the injury bug? Sure. Have those injuries been localized to one area or joint? No. Therefore, unless he has one of those above mentioned factors, medically his injuries are a fluke and should not be expected to pose a problem in the future, assuming he allows them to heal properly (which very well could be the current conundrum with his knee).

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by TheRevTy:

Just to clear something up:

 

Medically, there is no such thing as 'injury prone'. You cannot naturally be more susceptible to injury than anyone else. Sure, there are factors that may contribute to one person getting injured more often than others (poor diet, improper warm-up, carrying too much weight, other pre-existing condition such as scoliosis, etc), but naturally, one person cannot be more injury prone than another. Now, you can have an injury that isn't rehabbed properly and thus never gets the chance to heal, but even that, in time, will work itself out under proper circumstances (See Hill, Grant).

 

Has Jameer been strangely bitten by the injury bug? Sure. Have those injuries been localized to one area or joint? No. Therefore, unless he has one of those above mentioned factors, medically his injuries are a fluke and should not be expected to pose a problem in the future, assuming he allows them to heal properly (which very well could be the current conundrum with his knee).

 

Jameer seems to be very good at coming back from injuries. In the Finals last season he didn't look terrible after like 3 months absence and it only took him like three games before he started playing pretty well when he returned from his last injury. It's the guys who aren't "injury prone" who seem to not handle it as well. Carter took a lot longer to get back into the roll of things after his ankle injury early on and his most recent shoulder tweaking.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

I can understand being worried about Jameer's injuries, but to say we aren't a better team when he's healthy is just ludicrous.

 

Now all you have to do is show where I said that.

[magic7777777 0]

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

can you please define what a real pg is?

 

 

Must have a "PASS FIRST MENTALITY", has good assist to turnover ratio, the playmaker the floor general/leader, must really focus on mental aspects of the game, supposed to be the extension of the coach on the floor, has to be totally conscious with teammates, controls the tempo, handles the ball extremely well, has high basketball iq/knowledge, has ability to read plays before they happen, very fast, superb defender like my idols jstockton and jkidd, great shooter, very high self-esteem.

[BMP 424]

quote:

Fast forward to this year and history seems to be repeating itself. Creating the question once again, how important is Jameer to the success of this team?

 

 

quote:

So again I ask, where is the support that Jameer is important to this team's success? And how much more important is he than (2) 30+ Pg's on the backside of their careers?

 

So, if the team is better with a healthy Jameer, then in fact he IS important to this success of this team. Whether the degrees of success may vary, if there was any way to measure them, with Jameer it would be... higher