With Nelson (20-12)...With J. Will (13-4) Sentinel

[BMP 424]

quote:

Originally posted by magic7777777:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

can you please define what a real pg is?

 

 

Must have a "PASS FIRST MENTALITY", has good assist to turnover ratio, the playmaker the floor general/leader, must really focus on mental aspects of the game, supposed to be the extension of the coach on the floor, has to be totally conscious with teammates, controls the tempo, handles the ball extremely well, has high basketball iq/knowledge, has ability to read plays before they happen, very fast, superb defender like my idols jstockton and jkidd, great shooter, very high self-esteem.

 

 

HAHAHAHHAHAH oh my god, so THAT'S what a pass-first PG is.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

So, if the team is better with a healthy Jameer, then in fact he IS important to this success of this team. Whether the degrees of success may vary, if there was any way to measure them, with Jameer it would be... higher

 

The Magic play at a high level without Jameer and a slightly higher level with him (if regular season W-L record is your only measure). I am not arguing that Jameer is important to this team. In fact, I have said as much. I'm just wondering how one can determine precisely how valuable when considering that there is very little fall off when he is not present in the starting lineup?

 

Frankly, you're barking up the wrong darn tree. I am not an opponent of Jameer starting. Nor am I questioning how much his continued good health and good play means to this team. I am simply curious how one can determine that he is vital to team success when the outcome of games that he doesn't participate in would contradict such a hypothesis.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Honestly, Dwight is the only player in the starting lineup that you could label as vital to the teams success. We've seen that we can win without Lewis int he lineup. Same goes for Vince. Jameer as well, though J Will can't keep up extended minutes over a period of time. Barnes can be replaced with Peaches.

 

Yes, Gortat has done well for us when Dwight is out, but it has never been for any significant period of time.

 

It's all a testament to how stacked, how deep this team Otis has put together really is.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by magic7777777:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

can you please define what a real pg is?

 

 

Must have a "PASS FIRST MENTALITY", has good assist to turnover ratio, the playmaker the floor general/leader, must really focus on mental aspects of the game, supposed to be the extension of the coach on the floor, has to be totally conscious with teammates, controls the tempo, handles the ball extremely well, has high basketball iq/knowledge, has ability to read plays before they happen, very fast, superb defender like my idols jstockton and jkidd, great shooter, very high self-esteem.

 

 

HAHAHAHHAHAH oh my god, so THAT'S what a pass-first PG is.

 

So all we need is to find Prime John Stockton or Prime Jerry West(assuming you consider him a point guard). They're the only two guys I can think of, even in their primes, that fit THAT description.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by magic7777777:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

can you please define what a real pg is?

 

 

Must have a "PASS FIRST MENTALITY", has good assist to turnover ratio, the playmaker the floor general/leader, must really focus on mental aspects of the game, supposed to be the extension of the coach on the floor, has to be totally conscious with teammates, controls the tempo, handles the ball extremely well, has high basketball iq/knowledge, has ability to read plays before they happen, very fast, superb defender like my idols jstockton and jkidd, great shooter, very high self-esteem.

 

 

HAHAHAHHAHAH oh my god, so THAT'S what a pass-first PG is.

 

So all we need is to find Prime John Stockton or Prime Jerry West(assuming you consider him a point guard). They're the only two guys I can think of, even in their primes, that fit THAT description.

 

I knew Magic Johnson wasn't a good point guard!

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by magic7777777:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

can you please define what a real pg is?

 

 

Must have a "PASS FIRST MENTALITY", has good assist to turnover ratio, the playmaker the floor general/leader, must really focus on mental aspects of the game, supposed to be the extension of the coach on the floor, has to be totally conscious with teammates, controls the tempo, handles the ball extremely well, has high basketball iq/knowledge, has ability to read plays before they happen, very fast, superb defender like my idols jstockton and jkidd, great shooter, very high self-esteem.

 

 

HAHAHAHHAHAH oh my god, so THAT'S what a pass-first PG is.

 

So all we need is to find Prime John Stockton or Prime Jerry West(assuming you consider him a point guard). They're the only two guys I can think of, even in their primes, that fit THAT description.

 

I knew Magic Johnson wasn't a good point guard!

 

I'm almost tempted to run off every great point guard I can think of, and list all the reasons they don't qualify.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by magic7777777:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

can you please define what a real pg is?

 

 

Must have a "PASS FIRST MENTALITY", has good assist to turnover ratio, the playmaker the floor general/leader, must really focus on mental aspects of the game, supposed to be the extension of the coach on the floor, has to be totally conscious with teammates, controls the tempo, handles the ball extremely well, has high basketball iq/knowledge, has ability to read plays before they happen, very fast, superb defender like my idols jstockton and jkidd, great shooter, very high self-esteem.

 

 

HAHAHAHHAHAH oh my god, so THAT'S what a pass-first PG is.

 

So all we need is to find Prime John Stockton or Prime Jerry West(assuming you consider him a point guard). They're the only two guys I can think of, even in their primes, that fit THAT description.

 

I knew Magic Johnson wasn't a good point guard!

 

I'm almost tempted to run off every great point guard I can think of, and list all the reasons they don't qualify.

 

I'll start.

 

Pistol Pete.

 

Not a pass first point guard. Never averaged more than 6.9 assists per game. The first year the league counted turnovers he averaged 5/game. Terrible D.

 

Controlled pace well. High IQ. Great vision.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Bob Cousy:

 

Never shot above 40% in any year of his career. Bad defender. Had a gigantic ego, which put him at huge odds with his teammates later in his career.

[ThisIsTheYear 241]

"Pass-first" PGs aren't contingent to success. I mean, by definition, the last pass-first PG to win a ring as his team's starting guard was Magic Johnson, who STILL may not meet the criteria set forth by magic7777777.

[Mickinator 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by cpower:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I can dismiss that stat really easily, actually. Watch:

 

Our record with Jason Williams starting: 13-4(.764)

 

Our record with Dwight Howard starting: 33-16(.673)

 

Ergo: Jason Williams is better than Dwight Howard.

 

See how stupid that logic is?

You should look at this way:

so Our Our record with Dwight Howard starting and Nelson starting: 20-12

 

And Our Our record with Dwight Howard starting and Jwill starting: 13-4

 

it speaks itself

 

Or I could just look at it as you're an obnoxious moron, and have the reading comprehension skills of a prairie vole. But I'll humor you with a different example.

 

Spurs starting Antonio McDyess at PF: 3-0)1.000)

Spurs with Tim Duncan starting at PF: 24-19(.558)

 

Ergo: The Spurs are better off with McDyess than with Duncan.

 

Wow DoM, lighten up...

[VinceCarter4life 69]

quote:

Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

"Pass-first" PGs aren't contingent to success. I mean, by definition, the last pass-first PG to win a ring as his team's starting guard was Magic Johnson, who STILL may not meet the criteria set forth by magic7777777.

 

lets see the last years of championships have had nothing like Nelson. Nelson could pull off being D Fish, but he really doesnt have a mindset like D FIsh or anywhere near hte defense. The only similarities is that they both shoot 3 well.

 

so lets see. And I might be off on this

 

2009, LA- Fisher. Will pass or shoot open 3s.

*runner up: Magic- Alson. Will pass.

2008, BOS- Rondo. Passes or scores at the rim.

*Runner up: LA- Fisher.

2007, Spurs- Parker. Will pass, or score at the rim. Does not focus on pulling up jumpers.

runner up...well they got swept

2006, Heat- JASON WILLIAMS.

*Runner up. Mavs. Idk

2005, Spurs.

*Runner up. Pistons- BILLUPS. WILL PASS

2004, Pistons.

*runner up. LA.

2003, Spurs

*runner up. Nets- JASON KIDD. Will pass always.

 

 

idk I could go on it just you wont find a point guard that's goal is to dribble around to find himself a jump shot.

[duckman slim 0]

It's not about pass first or shoot first, this argument is nonsense. It's about controlling the flow of the game to put your teammates in a position to score most effectively, it's about tempo and getting the ball to the players who are hot or inside to the big man. It's about court vision and having the ability to make good decisions most of the time. Most of the mentioned great point guards had these traits and that's why they were so good. For 34 years old, Jwill is still a very good point guard. According to Jerry West, the only reason Jwill wasn't "great" was because he loved to play and pass and didn't do a lot to improve each and every year like the great ones have done. Hubie Brown said, Jwill has one of the highest basketball iqs he has ever seen and as much natural talent as anyone he ever coached. The tempo, court vision, ect comes natural to Jwill, that's who he can create such a great flow and push the ball so well. Nelson is a good shooter, Jwill is having a better than average shooting year, but his point guard skills are much superior than Nelson's even at the advanced age of 34. This is so evident when you watch the game with Jwill pushing the ball and controlling the tempo. Anyone who doesn't see this is either a shill for Nelson, doesn't like Jwill (for any number of reasons), or is a poor student of the game. As always, I could be wrong.