PBN Top 100 List, Dwight # 5

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ThuglifeJ:

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

he's top 3.

 

Wade and Paul play no defense, Dwight does.

 

Have u seen Wade and Paul play? Paul averages like 2 steals a game.

 

U could also argue that Dwight can't shoot (even thought he's a center) has limited post moves, and cant shoot a free throw.

 

Id go.

 

1.Kobe 2.LBJ 3.Wade 4.Dwight 5.Paul.

 

Then Vince should no doubt in my mind be, in the 10-18 range

 

Claiming a player is good at defense because he gets a lot of steals is like saying a player is good on offense because he takes a lot of shots. Paul isn't anything special defensively but Wade can and does play pretty good perimeter defense. Neither player can hold a candle to Dwight's impact though

 

And to your argument, Dwight does have limited post moves and no shot. There isn't an argument, there is just fact. That said, he is still probably going to be the most influential player in the league two years down the road and is already barely behind the big 3, of which Paul is no a part of.

[gporter 5]

1. King James

2. Kobe

3. Wade

 

These are the three best players in the NBA, and then there is Dwight.

 

After Dwight, I wouldn't even say Chris Paul is next, but he is #1 PG, for sure.

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by gporter:

1. King James

2. Kobe

3. Wade

 

These are the three best players in the NBA, and then there is Dwight.

 

After Dwight, I wouldn't even say Chris Paul is next, but he is #1 PG, for sure.

 

Let me ask you this: who had the advantage at the point guard position, the Nuggets or Hornets this past summer? How can Chris Paul be the best if Chauncey dominates him?

[Mr Charisma 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

Claiming a player is good at defense because he gets a lot of steals is like saying a player is good on offense because he takes a lot of shots.

That is one of the most invalid comparisons I have ever seen.

 

Steal = 100% of the time a good thing

Shot = 40% of the time a good thing

 

I agree with your intended point that number of steals does not mean you are a great defender.

 

But that was a horrible argument.

[barnettej 263]

If Dwight becomes the player we all think he will become, then Dwight will move up in the rankings to a top 3 player in the NBA.

 

Ofcourse Dwight is going to not have to step up his game, but win some championships...

 

Now the championship part will take a team effort, and since we have been doing a good job in surrounding Dwight with good talent, it should not be too long before we have our long awaited Championship Trophy.

 

Jameer should be rated higher, I know he there are questions about injuries.. but so does Amare and some of the other guys ahead of him.... I think last year's All Star effort is what's to come from Jameer.

[gporter 5]

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

quote:

Originally posted by gporter:

1. King James

2. Kobe

3. Wade

 

These are the three best players in the NBA, and then there is Dwight.

 

After Dwight, I wouldn't even say Chris Paul is next, but he is #1 PG, for sure.

 

Let me ask you this: who had the advantage at the point guard position, the Nuggets or Hornets this past summer? How can Chris Paul be the best if Chauncey dominates him?

 

Jameer dominated Chauncey last year, does that mean he's better?

 

I think so.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

A better comparison would be "Saying 'he's a good defender because he gets a lot of steals' is like saying 'he's a highly effective scorer because he scores a lot of points'".

 

Essentially, you're acknowledging that stats that are helpful on a basic level can be obtained in a way that isn't beneficial.

[Mr Charisma 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

quote:

Originally posted by gporter:

1. King James

2. Kobe

3. Wade

 

These are the three best players in the NBA, and then there is Dwight.

 

After Dwight, I wouldn't even say Chris Paul is next, but he is #1 PG, for sure.

 

Let me ask you this: who had the advantage at the point guard position, the Nuggets or Hornets this past summer? How can Chris Paul be the best if Chauncey dominates him?

Wow. Again, your logic is flawed.

 

Head-to-head does not always determine who is the best NBA player.

 

If Chris Paul outplays the opposing PG in 95% of the games, while Chauncy Billups outplays the opposing PG in 80% of the games, then Paul is better, regardless if the games against Billups made up that measley 5%.

 

Head-to-head is a logic trap. Billups outplays Paul. Paul outplays Parker. Parker outplays Billups. (this is an example; not stating this as an actual comparison). Now what?

[Mr Charisma 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

A better comparison would be "Saying 'he's a good defender because he gets a lot of steals' is like saying 'he's a highly effective scorer because he scores a lot of points'".

 

Essentially, you're acknowledging that stats that are helpful on a basic level can be obtained in a way that isn't beneficial.

Well said...

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Charisma:

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

quote:

Originally posted by gporter:

1. King James

2. Kobe

3. Wade

 

These are the three best players in the NBA, and then there is Dwight.

 

After Dwight, I wouldn't even say Chris Paul is next, but he is #1 PG, for sure.

 

Let me ask you this: who had the advantage at the point guard position, the Nuggets or Hornets this past summer? How can Chris Paul be the best if Chauncey dominates him?

Wow. Again, your logic is flawed.

 

Head-to-head does not always determine who is the best NBA player.

 

If Chris Paul outplays the opposing PG in 95% of the games, while Chauncy Billups outplays the opposing PG in 80% of the games, then Paul is better, regardless if the games against Billups made up that measley 5%.

 

Head-to-head is a logic trap. Billups outplays Paul. Paul outplays Parker. Parker outplays Billups. (this is an example; not stating this as an actual comparison). Now what?

 

Again, my logic is flawless and yours is incredibly weak.

 

Wait so your argument is founded on the principle that just beause Billups is better than Paul, he isn't better than Paul because Paul is better than other people? This is why you can't claim Chris Paul to be an elite talent because I defy you to name two shooting guards that would have a clear advantage over Kobe or Dwayne Wade in a 7 game series. Okay, now name a small forward who would rock Lebron's world in a head-to-head match-up. All right, gimme a pair of 4s who would make KG and Duncan look bad. And some centers who would embarrass Dwight over the course of a playoff series. You can't for the six players I just mentioned and that is why they are considered the best in the league: because there aren't people better than them.

 

And to answer your hypothetical question: nothing happens because stuff like is very common among great NBA players. But not when were talking about the top 3 players in the league. Those players have an advantage everytime they step on the court.

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by gporter:

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

quote:

Originally posted by gporter:

1. King James

2. Kobe

3. Wade

 

These are the three best players in the NBA, and then there is Dwight.

 

After Dwight, I wouldn't even say Chris Paul is next, but he is #1 PG, for sure.

 

Let me ask you this: who had the advantage at the point guard position, the Nuggets or Hornets this past summer? How can Chris Paul be the best if Chauncey dominates him?

 

Jameer dominated Chauncey last year, does that mean he's better?

 

I think so.

 

He wouldn't in a 7 game series

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Charisma:

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

Claiming a player is good at defense because he gets a lot of steals is like saying a player is good on offense because he takes a lot of shots.

That is one of the most invalid comparisons I have ever seen.

 

Steal = 100% of the time a good thing

Shot = 40% of the time a good thing

 

I agree with your intended point that number of steals does not mean you are a great defender.

 

But that was a horrible argument.

 

Steal = Rarely a good thing. Because of the thirteen times AI is out of position trying to get a steal, he may come up with two. I was drawing the comparison of looking at shot attempts is as ignorant as looking at steals.

 

And the more I think about my sarcastic phrase, the more truthful it becomes. Seeing the number of steals in a statline shows essentially nothing besides a pair of forced turnovers. It doesn't tell you that so and so had 35 points scored on him from every spot on the floor, it just shows you a concrete fact by which any knowledge you try to draw from it is so borderline random that it is plain stupid. It is a lot like looking at Zach Randolph taking 23 shots and trying to figure out how good of an offensive player he is. He takes a lot of shots and so does Kobe so I guess he is good right? Looking at points per game as DoM suggested isn't anywhere near as misleading as looking at steals because if somebody is scoring 25 a game, it is safe to assume that he is an important fixture to an offense and is probably at least a relatively gifted offensively player. If somebody is getting a bunch of steals, it can either mean that he is a God awful defender or an incredible one. Essentially nothing can be read. Somebody takes 11 shots, he can either be an efficient and awesome offensive player or he can Jeremy Richardson. Wow that was an incredible comparison, my arm is getting tired from patting myself on my back.