JJ and Bogans shooting % for Dec. and Jan.

[magic berto 0]

Bogans is good for tiring out the Kobes and Wades of the league the first three quarters of the game. They'd be too happy exploiting the match up until they finally get burned out in the fourth quarter.

 

JJ and Bogans are basically playing for 3rd string minutes, 3rd stringers aren't put against starters, ergo, not much defense is needed in that regard.

 

All of this is of course, assuming that Pietrus is healthy. Forgot about that. While he's out though, I think it should be Lee then JJ/Bogans. It's a no-brainer.

[Murphy13 185]

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

echo, when the topic of the thread is field goal shooting, what other parameters would you like to include? how about speed of the players? or number of steals they get? they certainly are what determines whether you make your shots or not...

 

crazy.

 

I think we can permit ourselves to think outside of the box and consider other factors than field goal percentage. I'm sure Stan isn't looking at his shooting guards shooting percentages to determine who plays.

 

JJ has played better the past few weeks. We are going to need him with Bogans out so hopefully he keeps it up. The two Hawks games will be real tests for him.

 

If JJ manages to keep it up he should receive some of Bogans minutes.

 

i agree, im not saying that there arent other factors involved into determining the right player for the job. i just saw someone trying to detract from the point of the conversation. of course there is more to the game than making shots. however, is there a more important aspect to the game?

[Emory889 353]

quote:

and lee isnt capable of playing more than 18-20 minutes effectively.

 

Do you have anything to back up this statement? I would love to know how you came up with this theory.

 

quote:

lee didnt guard caron straight up, he provided help D, and may have gotten the switch once, but didnt 'guard' him.

 

Clearly you didn't watch the game. Butler was playing the 2 guard slot and Lee covered him for most of the first 3 quarters. Stan didn't switch over to Hedo until late in the 3rd.

[no_ma'am 0]

as long as JJ is playing well, i don't have a problem with him getting reserve minutes. He played good on offense and decent on D last night. However, if he isn't shooting he is useless (the redick for dpoy people, please spare me). He had a good offensive game in toronto, but he gave up at least as many points on the other end, if not more.

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

echo, when the topic of the thread is field goal shooting, what other parameters would you like to include? how about speed of the players? or number of steals they get? they certainly are what determines whether you make your shots or not...

 

crazy.

 

I think we can permit ourselves to think outside of the box and consider other factors than field goal percentage. I'm sure Stan isn't looking at his shooting guards shooting percentages to determine who plays.

 

JJ has played better the past few weeks. We are going to need him with Bogans out so hopefully he keeps it up. The two Hawks games will be real tests for him.

 

If JJ manages to keep it up he should receive some of Bogans minutes.

 

i agree, im not saying that there arent other factors involved into determining the right player for the job. i just saw someone trying to detract from the point of the conversation. of course there is more to the game than making shots. however, is there a more important aspect to the game?

 

That depends on the role of the player playing that position. For the most part, the Magic don't ask their shooting guards to score a lot of points. Any scoring they provide helps but they are there primarily for defensive purposes. With that in mind, I would say making shots isn't the most important aspect of the game for them.

 

Now if you are talking about the much broader aspect of the game then yes. The team that makes the most baskets usually wins.

[PNuT1423 0]

quote:

Originally posted by John the Jerk:

Ok lets get one thing straight. BOGANS IS NOT A GREAT DEFENDER!!! Sg's go off on him or should I say over him. Bogans does a good job against preventing his guy from getting to the basket and running through screens. However, guys who can rise up and hit a mid range jumper kill Bogans because he has no lift to seriously contest jumpers. 98% of the Sgs in the league have more lift than Keith. Bogans may still have a place on this team but I don't see him as our Starting SG.

 

yeah it's obvious that bogans isn't a great defender, it's what i meant when i said that he's probably not making the all nba defensive team, i guess i was being a little bit sarcastic and it didn't come across well. and i know bogans shouldn't start while we have a healthy peitrus and then lee around, but he's very useful and was a good part of our rotation when were were taking down the few very good teams that we've played, so his defense is better than some, but not great.

 

the healthy rotation nowdays looks like peitrus, lee, bogans/reddick, whoever is useful for the situation, which would probably be bogans in most situations. the long term sg's for the team are peitrus and lee, and if we can beg bogans to play for less than if he would go somewhere else when his contract expires we'll need him because rashard's contract is pretty big. and i have a feeling our next few draft picks and offseason signings will deal with the backup pg and PF/C positions... i have the same feeling that bogans will find himself out of the rotation especially with his recent play, but the factors are still there that he seems to have been injured and none of us knew, with a healthy peitrus/lee his number will get called fewer and fewer times, but he's still good to have around as that 3rd string sg.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

echo, when the topic of the thread is field goal shooting, what other parameters would you like to include? how about speed of the players? or number of steals they get? they certainly are what determines whether you make your shots or not...

 

crazy.

 

I think we can permit ourselves to think outside of the box and consider other factors than field goal percentage. I'm sure Stan isn't looking at his shooting guards shooting percentages to determine who plays.

 

JJ has played better the past few weeks. We are going to need him with Bogans out so hopefully he keeps it up. The two Hawks games will be real tests for him.

 

If JJ manages to keep it up he should receive some of Bogans minutes.

 

i agree, im not saying that there arent other factors involved into determining the right player for the job. i just saw someone trying to detract from the point of the conversation. of course there is more to the game than making shots. however, is there a more important aspect to the game?

 

Defense is equally as important as offense. You either have to score more than the other team, or stop them from scoring more than you. You need a blend of both. For our team, the way it is currently comprised, defense at the SG position is more important than offense.

 

Not to mention the fact that just looking at one straight stat like FG% to detemine playing time is rediculous to begin with.

 

Talk about FG% all you want, point out the differences (other players who were on the court for both teams, mop up minutes vs. crunch time etc.), but it just one piece of the puzzle.

 

What's better...

 

49% from three point land and 54% from the field

 

or the next guy shooting 39% from 3 and 45% from the field?

 

What if the first guy is averaging 7 turnovers a game and the first 2?

What if the first guy is averaging 3 shots a game and the second 15?

What if the first guy averages 5 points a game, and lets him man go off for a career high of 35?

What f the second guy averages 10 points per, but holds his man to below his current average ppg?

We haven't begun to talk about steals, team help defense, overall impact on the game in terms of points (Lenovo stat).

 

The topic of the thread is FG%, but then the question is asked, who should get the SG minutes. You can't base that answer off of fg% alone.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

quote:

and lee isnt capable of playing more than 18-20 minutes effectively.

 

Do you have anything to back up this statement? I would love to know how you came up with this theory.

 

quote:

lee didnt guard caron straight up, he provided help D, and may have gotten the switch once, but didnt 'guard' him.

 

Clearly you didn't watch the game. Butler was playing the 2 guard slot and Lee covered him for most of the first 3 quarters. Stan didn't switch over to Hedo until late in the 3rd.

 

Exactly. I would also add that Caron had 0 pts at the half and didn't score his first pts of the game till he got Jameer on a switch. Lee was playing him straight up for the vast majority of the first half.

 

JJ had a good game in that he brought energy off the bench. I was concerned we would be hurt by not having Courtney come in and provide energy but JJ worked hard out there. I would say for the time being Courtney should start, with JJ off the bench until Pietrus gets back. At that point I would have Courtney come back off the bench with Pietrus starting.

[COLOMBIANO 118]

You guys keep saying that Bogans has an advantage over JJ because of his defense, but what defense are we talking about? IMO Bogans is not a good defender! Bogans defense it's just a rumor someone started and know his known for his defense, but in reality he gets torched by every single shooting guard.

 

We should be talking about trading Bogans not JJ. In fact Bogans should be even easier to trade b/c his contract exp this season while JJ has another year.

 

OTIS PLEASE TRADE SLOWGANS! HE SUCKS!!!!

[PNuT1423 0]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

cunning, i am trying to understand where you are coming from.

 

first of all, the point wouldnt/isnt moot, because pietrus is going to be out until after the all star break, and lee isnt capable of playing more than 18-20 minutes effectively. where are the other 20+ minutes going to come from? secondly, what games have you been watching to suggest that bogans is a physical defender? i have yet to see that. in fact, i have seen bogans on his heels a lot on D this season-if anything, his D is worse than last season. both lee and redick are equal or better defenders than him, and have more energy than bogans ever had.

 

what does caron have to do with our sg talk? lee didnt guard caron straight up, he provided help D, and may have gotten the switch once, but didnt 'guard' him. lee is perhaps the smallest 6'5" player in the history of the game, why would he be guarding a cut, 6'9" guy that would eat him alive? on a separate note, redick still looks taller to me than lee does...maybe its the goofy hair, i dont know. anyway, back to topic...

 

i heard that bogans has an ailment of some kind-but havent heard what exactly. i have a feeling its as much to do with fatigue as it is with an injury.

 

fatigue is a factor, but it's not a reason for bogans to show up to a game in a suit, and when it comes to lee i think he plays alot taller than he is due to his ability to jump, and i think lee is actually taller than jj and it must be due to the hair i agree with you on that, i don't know what the numbers are on his vertical but he seems to sky at times, and i'm not worrying about him playing 18 to 20 minutes, because he obviously can, he's been playing more and more with less fatigue problems and the more minutes he gets per game the more likely he'll be able to contribute up to 30 minutes per game(it probably won't be necessary) in a playoff setting later this year without being bothered by playoff home crowds.

 

bogans lateral movement, or in simpler terms for you, the ability for him to move his somewhat larger than redick's body in front of a guy to prevent him from driving is better than mr. redicks ability. and that's physical, and he does do that, and again he's not the greatest defender in the world, but he works, and it fits in our winning roation so far. again peitrus/lee are the way of the future and not bogans/redick, we could replace the both of them with alot of other sg's when peitrus isn't being insane and injuring himself.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by COLOMBIANO:

You guys keep saying that Bogans has an advantage over JJ because of his defense, but what defense are we talking about? IMO Bogans is not a good defender! Bogans defense it's just a rumor someone started and know his known for his defense, but in reality he gets torched by every single shooting guard.

 

We should be talking about trading Bogans not JJ. In fact Bogans should be even easier to trade b/c his contract exp this season while JJ has another year.

 

OTIS PLEASE TRADE SLOWGANS! HE SUCKS!!!!

 

Bogans doesn't have to be a "good" defender to be a "better" defender than JJ. I don't know why you think the two mean the same thing. They don't. Bogans is average/JJ is below average.

[PNuT1423 0]

quote:

Originally posted by COLOMBIANO:

You guys keep saying that Bogans has an advantage over JJ because of his defense, but what defense are we talking about? IMO Bogans is not a good defender! Bogans defense it's just a rumor someone started and know his known for his defense, but in reality he gets torched by every single shooting guard.

 

We should be talking about trading Bogans not JJ. In fact Bogans should be even easier to trade b/c his contract exp this season while JJ has another year.

 

OTIS PLEASE TRADE SLOWGANS! HE SUCKS!!!!

 

lol we can't trade either of them, well one more than the other.