Otis says Magic's 1st round pick "IS NOT" at camp - Dorsey?(Povtak)

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

Not the best comparison since he has a little bit of an offensive game, but Paul Millsap was a 2nd round pick. Would you pick him over guys like Rajon Rondo, Marcus Williams, ummm. Ok, bad draft example too. But you get my point. Sure Dorsey is going to fill a huge need, but if a guy like CDR or even a surprise player who dropped all the way to 22 is available, is Dorsey still your pick? He is a 2nd round pick for a reason, and 22 is still too high if you can get someone that has a chance to become a more complete player for you.

 

I think a more accurate comparison would be:

 

Do you draft Ben Wallace or Leandro Barbosa late in 1st round?

 

IMO, the NBA is litered with prospects with freakish athletic skills that still haven't lived up to the billing. But hard-nosed, competitive big men that lay it on the line night in and night out are relatively rare, and ultimately earn minutes on contending teams.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Kberto:

I've said it before and i'll say it again, Dorsey is a good second round pick up. He'd be a nice addition to our bench, but there's no way he deserves our pick at #22.

 

Why do you keep doing this? You're littering every thread with the same mesage that nobody is argueing. I even said on the previous page that I wouldn't consider taking Dorsey with the 22nd pick unless we had other holes filled prior to the selection.

[Soul Bro 1,422]

I didn't see a lot of Dorsey, perhaps 5-6 games this year. However, what I did see either in the championship game or final four game was nothing short of defensive domination by Dorsey. To say that he owned the paint in the first half of one of those games would be an understatement. Block after block, rebound after rebound, he was an enforcer, ala Dwight. I'm not sure he could start next to Dwight, but he could bring some, "Get that junk out of my house," attitude.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

Not the best comparison since he has a little bit of an offensive game, but Paul Millsap was a 2nd round pick. Would you pick him over guys like Rajon Rondo, Marcus Williams, ummm. Ok, bad draft example too. But you get my point. Sure Dorsey is going to fill a huge need, but if a guy like CDR or even a surprise player who dropped all the way to 22 is available, is Dorsey still your pick? He is a 2nd round pick for a reason, and 22 is still too high if you can get someone that has a chance to become a more complete player for you.

 

I think a more accurate comparison would be:

 

Do you draft Ben Wallace or Leandro Barbosa late in 1st round?

 

IMO, the NBA is litered with prospects with freakish athletic skills that still haven't lived up to the billing. But hard-nosed, competitive big men that lay it on the line night in and night out are relatively rare, and ultimately earn minutes on contending teams.

I was attemtping to use the same draft, but remembered in mid sentence that with the 05 draft, thats hard to do.

 

How about guys like Josh Howard and Kevin Martin? I mean do you pass on a guy like CDR or Rush who can turn out to be like one of those guys, or do you take a guy who will fill a need, but give you nothing more. I'm all for drafting Dorsey in the 2nd, but if guys like that are still available at 22, I couldn't bring myself to skip over them.

 

edit: nvm, I didn't realize you wouldn't take him in the 1st either.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

How about guys like Josh Howard and Kevin Martin? I mean do you pass on a guy like CDR or Rush who can turn out to be like one of those guys, or do you take a guy who will fill a need, but give you nothing more. I'm all for drafting Dorsey in the 2nd, but if guys like that are still available at 22, I couldn't bring myself to skip over them.

 

No. You don't pass up guys like CDR or Rush, or even Lee or Lopez IMO, to draft Dorsey. The Magic should however, do everything they can to do both.

Dorsey is one of those glue players that infects the whole team with his energy. He flat gets after it. Yes there are certainly players that "could" give you more. But I don't see anybody out there that "will" without a doubt give you more.

[Soul Bro 1,422]

Jareth, it is interesting you bring up Josh Howard. I see CDR as a player a lot like him.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by Soul Bro:

Jareth, it is interesting you bring up Josh Howard. I see CDR as a player a lot like him.

They both have great length. I agree.

[nabeca 0]

Mehmet Okur was drafted in second round #16 (might be 22). We all knew that he deserved better. Normally 2nd round players do not dress a suit, go and handshake with people. Anyways he went there, handshaked, played his basketball and became an all star.

 

So guys, whatever coaches and teams say about a player whether he should be a 2nd round pick, or not get drafted at all, remember that it is the player who decides on what he will become. We can get a surprising player.

 

I say Omer Asik from Turkey can be drafted by Magic. He is not on tha camp, cos his team is in the play offs in turkey. He plays for fenerbahce Ulker.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

You know, I was just thinking about this a bit.

The old cliche is that you can't teach athleticism, and to a degree that is true. Obviously athleticism is a gift you either have or don't. But wouldn't it be much more easily stated, that desire is something you can't teach, when it comes to characterizing professional athletes?

 

Give me a moment here and I'll explain. Professional sports is always going to be filled with elite athletes. Now obviously one athlete may be much more athletic compared to another athlete, but overall they're ALL supreme athletes. And to a man, I think they're all capable of scoring 20+ppg based on the athleticism they all possess. IMO, there isn't a whole lot that separates the all-stars from the bench guys (in regards to ability to put points on the board).

However, there are only what, maybe 5-6 identifiable defensive stoppers in the NBA? What separates them from the other players? In many cases, an actual lack of athleticism may be present. But I think the one characteristic that makes a player a defensive stopper is a desire to compete. An unquenchable WILL to perfect one aspect of their game that is not easily duplicated. With al the egos in professional sports, it takes a special type of person to do the dirty work, to not take center stage, to not beat on their chest and holler to the rafters when they do something notable. And it takes a very, very special type of player to do something notable that is never seen as remarkable.

 

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

You know, I was just thinking about this a bit.

The old cliche is that you can't teach athleticism, and to a degree that is true. Obviously athleticism is a gift you either have or don't. But wouldn't it be much more easily stated, that desire is something you can't teach, when it comes to characterizing professional athletes?

 

Give me a moment here and I'll explain. Professional sports is always going to be filled with elite athletes. Now obviously one athlete may be much more athletic compared to another athlete, but overall they're ALL supreme athletes. And to a man, I think they're all capable of scoring 20+ppg based on the athleticism they all possess. IMO, there isn't a whole lot that separates the all-stars from the bench guys (in regards to ability to put points on the board).

However, there are only what, maybe 5-6 identifiable defensive stoppers in the NBA? What separates them from the other players? In many cases, an actual lack of athleticism may be present. But I think the one characteristic that makes a player a defensive stopper is a desire to compete. An unquenchable WILL to perfect one aspect of their game that is not easily duplicated. With al the egos in professional sports, it takes a special type of person to do the dirty work, to not take center stage, to not beat on their chest and holler to the rafters when they do something notable. And it takes a very, very special type of player to do something notable that is never seen as remarkable.

 

I agree 100%

 

Can't teach speed, height, athleticism...but you can't teach competitiveness either. You can poke and prode guys, but not for 82 games, & the NBA is a league that actually breeds complacency. *cough* Jameer *cough* Penny *cough* T-Mac

 

Defensive players are guys who take competition personally. It's just a different mindset and it applies to other sports. But, you see fewer and fewer guys in the NBA today who possess it. There used to be guys like this on every team. Now, as you said, there's a handful in the entire league. Elite athletes who pride themselves on being great defenders.

 

The other side of this is that their intensity rubs off on their teammates and gets them to play D at a higher level. Motivation is always better coming from your teammates than the coach and that's why I would love to see guys like Pietrus & Dorsey in Magic uni's next year.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by Kberto:

There's nothing i've read, or seen out of Dorsey in games that tells me he will be a defensive stopper in the NBA. At best, Dorsey will be someone who can come off the bench and provide some muscle, some energy, some rebounding, and that's it. He's a very limited ball player that relies on will and athletic ability. Once his athleticism starts to decrease, he's down in this league.

 

If you haven't seen evidence, you haven't watched him play. That's pretty much all I can say.

 

As for the other comment, the same things were said about Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, & Bruce Bowen after they had already been in the league. Which is why they all found success with other teams who did value what they brought to the table and all they did was win championships.

[jack daniel 999 27]

I think the Rodman days shocked Stern and the committee into making the game by rules adjustments into more of an offensive game.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by Soul Bro:

P.S.--A guy I really have my eye on is Budinger. For much of this year and last year he was considered a top 10 pick. Why the drop? Pundits say it is b/c he lacks aggressiveness. IMO, you can't overlook the fact that Olson, his coach, left the team for much of the year due to personal problems. Imagine if SVG had left our team early in the year ... how would that have effected Hedo, Dwight, etc.?

 

I really don't like him. Great athlete, but plays too soft for me. I appreciate the impact of losing a coach, but you're talking about a team with 2 "star" players & a boat load of blue chips recruits that underachieved for 2 consecutive years at Zona. Some guys who can put up stats never really figure out how to translate their ability into wins.