Otis says Magic's 1st round pick "IS NOT" at camp - Dorsey?(Povtak)

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

Even if the Magic addressed their other needs I would still say that Dorsey would be a reach at 22. The Magic could still draft a guy like Robin Lopez who hustles, rebounds, and plays defense and also provides some offense as well. Its bad management of assets to reach for a player just because he may fit a need. You take the best player available and then you can always trade that guy to another team and get more value out of the pick.

 

Otherwise, we are paying Dorsey first round dollars for second round talent.

 

I think at all depends on how highly valued a player like Dorsey is by other organizations. By no means am I suggesting that Dorsey is only a 2nd round talent. He is very easily a 1st round talent, but as for the Magic team needs, I can't see them drafting Dorsey at #22 if they haven't resolved other roster issues first.

 

As KITNO stated previously, Dorsey is exactly the type of player an established contender will target to complete their rotation. I doubt very highly that Dorsey slips to the 2nd round. Another point, is that there really isn't that big a difference between the salaries of a late 1st round pick, and a 2nd round pick other than the guaranteed portion.

 

Regradless, it should be a pretty exciting draft night all the way around.

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

Even if the Magic addressed their other needs I would still say that Dorsey would be a reach at 22. The Magic could still draft a guy like Robin Lopez who hustles, rebounds, and plays defense and also provides some offense as well. Its bad management of assets to reach for a player just because he may fit a need. You take the best player available and then you can always trade that guy to another team and get more value out of the pick.

 

Otherwise, we are paying Dorsey first round dollars for second round talent.

 

I think at all depends on how highly valued a player like Dorsey is by other organizations. By no means am I suggesting that Dorsey is only a 2nd round talent. He is very easily a 1st round talent, but as for the Magic team needs, I can't see them drafting Dorsey at #22 if they haven't resolved other roster issues first.

 

As KITNO stated previously, Dorsey is exactly the type of player an established contender will target to complete their rotation. I doubt very highly that Dorsey slips to the 2nd round. Another point, is that there really isn't that big a difference between the salaries of a late 1st round pick, and a 2nd round pick other than the guaranteed portion.

 

Regradless, it should be a pretty exciting draft night all the way around.

 

I think we are pretty much in agreement on this issue. If the Magic were to have the 30th pick in the draft then I would be happy picking Dorsey in the 1st round. I also would be ok with taking him in the first if the talent pool was similar to two years ago when we took JJ but this draft is pretty deep. Thats the main reason that Otis is considering acquiring a second round pick because whoever we take has a very good shot of making the squad. Granted, I'm not a Nba scout but I can't imagine a team taking Dorsey any higher than 28 where Memphis is picking. The next two teams picking are Detroit and Boston who both have plenty of big men. If he gets past Memphis he will probably fall into the second round.

 

This will definitely be the closest I have followed the draft since the year we drafted Dwight and Jameer.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by bhnole:

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

 

 

"The player we are looking to draft may or may not have played in college. Some say he may be from another land. Some say he may be from the United States. One thing I can assure you all, is that he has played basketball before. More then likely, he will be male. He may even have a first and last name. Now please, no further questions."

 

I think that pretty much says it for how much stock to put into anything Otis says, he is a master of vague answers.

 

Difficult to give straight answers when you don't possess them.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

First, it's never too good an idea to become enamored over a player just because of predraft workouts.

 

You surely aren't implying that rookie camp sensations like Johnny Taylor, Steven Hunter, & Jeryl Sasser don't always translate to the NBA???

 

I think it's pretty wise to ignore a players entire career and judge him based off glorified pick up games and individual workouts. Or least our scouting department has...

 

Seriously, players who star in games like this are typically the ones willing to hog the ball ball and jack up enough shots to star. But, the revelent question is, how effective can they be when they are the 5th option on the floor, not the first, and will actually be defended/defend NBA players.

 

As far as Dorsey being a first round talent or not. I've seen him dominate too many 1st round talents not to believe he is. I'm not surprised he isn't as highly considered as those guys however. As I said before, I'm pretty sure Ben Wallace & Dennis Rodman only made the All-Star game once each. Has Bruce Bowen made an All-Star game? Who believes that reflects their true impact on the game or values as players? Were any of those guys 1st round picks?

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

As far as Dorsey being a first round talent or not. I've seen him dominate too many 1st round talents not to believe he is. I'm not surprised he isn't as highly considered as those guys however. As I said before, I'm pretty sure Ben Wallace & Dennis Rodman only made the All-Star game once each. Has Bruce Bowen made an All-Star game? Who believes that reflects their true impact on the game or values as players? Were any of those guys 1st round picks?

 

Most defensive specialists go undrafted because NBA organizations seem to overvalue scoring and potential (to fill seats?) more so than characteristics that win games. I'll take a guy with a deep desire to compete over a guy that can put up 20 points in a 1 on 1 game every 2 weeks.

[ball junkie 277]

I'm torn. On the one hand we have Smack and Killing really putting the good word out for Dorsey. Two guys whose opinions I have great respect for. On the other hand most of the rest of you say Otis would be crazy to take Dorsey with a 1st rounder.

 

That creates even more respect for you 2 guys(Smack and Killing) when just about the whole board says taking Dorsey with the 1st pick would be a mistake.

 

The plot thickens!

[Berto 338]

quote:

Weaknesses: Basketball IQ is questionable in that he makes a great deal of mistakes during the course of a game

[Soul Bro 1,422]

I think Rush and CDR are better prospects than Dorsey. Both were go-to guys on championship caliber teams. Both are solid two-way players that would contribute right away, perhaps even start at SG for us.

 

That being said, I like Dorsey and think he is one of the best one-way players in the draft. His rebounding, shot-blocking, defense, and toughness are worth a late first. I am hoping that we can get both a starting caliber SG and Dorsey in the draft.

 

P.S.--A guy I really have my eye on is Budinger. For much of this year and last year he was considered a top 10 pick. Why the drop? Pundits say it is b/c he lacks aggressiveness. IMO, you can't overlook the fact that Olson, his coach, left the team for much of the year due to personal problems. Imagine if SVG had left our team early in the year ... how would that have effected Hedo, Dwight, etc.?

[SmackDaddy 30]

You know, I was just thinking about this a bit.

The old cliche is that you can't teach athleticism, and to a degree that is true. Obviously athleticism is a gift you either have or don't. But wouldn't it be much more easily stated, that desire is something you can't teach, when it comes to characterizing professional athletes?

 

Give me a moment here and I'll explain. Professional sports is always going to be filled with elite athletes. Now obviously one athlete may be much more athletic compared to another athlete, but overall they're ALL supreme athletes. And to a man, I think they're all capable of scoring 20+ppg based on the athleticism they all possess. IMO, there isn't a whole lot that separates the all-stars from the bench guys (in regards to ability to put points on the board).

However, there are only what, maybe 5-6 identifiable defensive stoppers in the NBA? What separates them from the other players? In many cases, an actual lack of athleticism may be present. But I think the one characteristic that makes a player a defensive stopper is a desire to compete. An unquenchable WILL to perfect one aspect of their game that is not easily duplicated. With al the egos in professional sports, it takes a special type of person to do the dirty work, to not take center stage, to not beat on their chest and holler to the rafters when they do something notable. And it takes a very, very special type of player to do something notable that is never seen as remarkable.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

I'm torn. On the one hand we have Smack and Killing really putting the good word out for Dorsey. Two guys whose opinions I have great respect for. On the other hand most of the rest of you say Otis would be crazy to take Dorsey with a 1st rounder.

 

One reference: I wanted Thabo 2 years ago when the entire board wanted JJ.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

Not the best comparison since he has a little bit of an offensive game, but Paul Millsap was a 2nd round pick. Would you pick him over guys like Rajon Rondo, Marcus Williams, ummm. Ok, bad draft example too. But you get my point. Sure Dorsey is going to fill a huge need, but if a guy like CDR or even a surprise player who dropped all the way to 22 is available, is Dorsey still your pick? He is a 2nd round pick for a reason, and 22 is still too high if you can get someone that has a chance to become a more complete player for you.

[Berto 338]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

You know, I was just thinking about this a bit.

The old cliche is that you can't teach athleticism, and to a degree that is true. Obviously athleticism is a gift you either have or don't. But wouldn't it be much more easily stated, that desire is something you can't teach, when it comes to characterizing professional athletes?

 

Give me a moment here and I'll explain. Professional sports is always going to be filled with elite athletes. Now obviously one athlete may be much more athletic compared to another athlete, but overall they're ALL supreme athletes. And to a man, I think they're all capable of scoring 20+ppg based on the athleticism they all possess. IMO, there isn't a whole lot that separates the all-stars from the bench guys (in regards to ability to put points on the board).

However, there are only what, maybe 5-6 identifiable defensive stoppers in the NBA? What separates them from the other players? In many cases, an actual lack of athleticism may be present. But I think the one characteristic that makes a player a defensive stopper is a desire to compete. An unquenchable WILL to perfect one aspect of their game that is not easily duplicated. With al the egos in professional sports, it takes a special type of person to do the dirty work, to not take center stage, to not beat on their chest and holler to the rafters when they do something notable. And it takes a very, very special type of player to do something notable that is never seen as remarkable.

 

I respect your opinion on this matter Smack. You obviously think very highly of Dorsey, but IMO, you over value his abilities. There's nothing i've read, or seen out of Dorsey in games that tells me he will be a defensive stopper in the NBA. At best, Dorsey will be someone who can come off the bench and provide some muscle, some energy, some rebounding, and that's it. He's a very limited ball player that relies on will and athletic ability. Once his athleticism starts to decrease, he's down in this league.

 

I've said it before and i'll say it again, Dorsey is a good second round pick up. He'd be a nice addition to our bench, but there's no way he deserves our pick at #22.