do these boards reflect the ethno-centric nature of humans?

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by michelle7:

I think favoring players is the nature of the beast. When I hear people say, "I don't care about any individual player, I only care about the team," I wonder to myself if they're a Dwight Howard fan, since he's the only untouchable player on that team. Its natural when you're watching a team to develop an affinity for some over others. Because there are only 5 spots open & finite number of minutes available for any given game, there are always going to be some unhappy people thinking their guy deserves more. Deep down I think everyone just wants their favorite player(s) to be treated fairly. I think the Arroyo fans could stomach this give-take minutes scenario better if Nelson wasn't stinking up the show so badly.

 

I will say straight up that I am a JJ Redick fan first and foremost and only care about the team in as much as how they relate to him. I wanted to be a Magic fan, I really did. But at this point, with this team and this coach, I'd be happier if he was traded to a team that didn't have its head up its ____. He deserves better. That being said, I'm not going to beat a dead horse and come here after every game complaining about JJ's treatment. Because I know that everyone here is here for a different reason, be it the team, a different player, whatever... and they don't want to hear a broken record being played ad nausem about minutes.

 

The stress is in not knowing how many minutes you're going to get, if any. If Bhill would just be consistent in that regard, I think the JJ, Darko, Carlos, etc. fans would be able to just accept it and move on.

 

 

You made a valid point about everyone having their favorite players Michelle. Even for people, like myself, you claim to be life long fans we were still drawn to the organization by Shaq, Penny, Nick etc. I think its great that JJ has brought fans like yourself to the Magic boards even if its only for a while. I also like the fact that our ethnically diverse roster has brought us posters from across Europe into Turkey and yes Puerto Rico. As long as the fans of the individual players accept the fact that longtime fans like myself place the teams success and longterm future ahead of said favorite players individual goals then everything is great.

 

I genuinely want Arroyo to play well when he's in the game. I would be an absolute moron to want him to fail. What gets real old is when Arroyo fans start screaming about his playing time when he clearly has been struggling all year. Has Jameer played any better? Absolutely not, but that plays into the longterm future of the Magic. There is still a chance that Jameer can become a good pg with the proper coaching. Carlos is 27 years old, has been in the league for several years now and whether they want to admit it or not he isn't going to get any better than he is right now. So as a longtime fan why would I want to see the potential future point guard get demoted to 3rd string for a player that probably won't be with the team next season? The short answer it that I don't. Until this season I was positive that Jameer was going to be a very good point guard. I now have serious doubts about that but until I see him under another coach I won't give up on him yet.

 

Now this is where is gets nasty...some Carlos fans whether its National pride or whatever have put him on a pedestal that is impossible for his skills to perform at. He may be great playing international basketball but he is only a roleplayer in the NBA. Like its already been stated its only a few but if you've seen a newscast recently you are aware that it's the loud and vocal few that always make the news. I don't think anything I've said is offensive but you wouldn't believe the names I have been called for stating opinions just like this. I've been called an idiot, a redneck, a racist you name it and I've heard it. I even had a guy tell me yesterday that Charles Barkley would take a s*** on me. I come to these boards because I genuinely love the Magic and I really enjoy talking to other people that do. No one should be subjected to this for any length of time and many people including myself have heard it consistently for a year and a half. I can easily understand why people would have a short fuse because I've been fighting it alot lately. Its not necessarily right but to me its understandable.

[the Judge 0]

K Berto

 

 

On one hand I'm trying my best not to cause hostile conflict, but on the other hand I like everyone being honest so I'll do the same. You are one of the most vocal, honest posters against Arroyo supporters, so I'd like it if you respond by backing-up your thoughts. Please try not to get in an "attacking" mode, I'll read what you say carefully I promise.

 

Ready?

 

Your posts are a good (though not all) part of what I used to describe (B) in the original post, and one of the reasons I started thread.

 

OK this is not directly about basketball skills but it is a discussion about our Orlando Magic basketball discussions... I'd say it's relevant and the mod thought it was cool

[Magicfirst 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Kberto:

I see what you're saying michelle, but I just don't see it that way. Yes, everyone has their favorite players, but only Arroyo fans take it to an unbearable level. I'm a fan of Diener and Redick, but I don't complain every 3 seconds that they're aren't playing like they should be. Some Arroyo fans want to blame everything except for Carlos himself. Carlos is the only one to blame for his benching. I hope he turns it around, but the race card gets played out to the point of nausia. I'm white myself, but I don't insinuate that JJ and Travis don't play because they're white, or because Brian Hill doesn't like them. I just think Brian Hill is stubborn in his ways, and his decisions are very questionable.

 

I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon

[Emory889 353]

quote:

I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon

 

Here's another classic example of what I'm talking about. Another person who thinks that Arroyo being on the bench is entirely based on race and has nothing to do with his poor play. If Brian Hill was such a racist why did he play him immediatly after the trade last season and 80% of this season? It doesn't make any sense to anyone with a little perspective.

[Berto 338]

quote:

Originally posted by the Judge:

K Berto

 

 

On one hand I'm trying my best not to cause hostile conflict, but on the other hand I like everyone being honest so I'll do the same. You are one of the most vocal, honest posters against Arroyo supporters, so I'd like it if you respond by backing-up your thoughts. Please try not to get in an "attacking" mode, I'll read what you say carefully I promise.

 

Ready?

 

Your posts are a good (though not all) part of what I used to describe (B) in the original post, and one of the reasons I started thread.

 

OK this is not directly about basketball skills but it is a discussion about our Orlando Magic basketball discussions... I'd say it's relevant and the mod thought it was cool

 

I like Carlos. I was genuinly happy when I found out he was part of the Darko trade. When we finshed last year on that 16-6 run, I had high hopes for the next season. At the beginning of this season, Carlos was playing great, and so was the rest of the team, as we stormed out to a 13-4 record with the best record in the league. Since then, we've been in a consistent slump. The blame can be spread to everyone, there are a lot of problems that need to be addressed in the offseason.

 

I have zero problem with people liking Arroyo. I question people when they care more about an individual than they do the team. When that is the case, it's impossible for that person to be objective because they just want to see their favorite player in the game.

 

I'd love to see Carlos break out of his funk and play like he did before, but I don't see it happening. Yes, Jameer has been just as bad, but there is such an unknown upside with Jameer. If he firgues it out, he has the talent to be a star.

[Magicfirst 0]

Originally posted by emory889:

 

 

Now this is where is gets nasty...some Carlos fans whether its National pride or whatever have put him on a pedestal that is impossible for his skills to perform at. He may be great playing international basketball but he is only a roleplayer in the NBA.

 

 

 

I really respect your opinion,but you have to realize that this is the same opinion that BHill has.And it is not working.I could state until I am blue in the face, logical reasons why I believe that Carlos would be a very good PG for the Magic.But my opinion is no better than yours.The problem is that Yours and Bhills is getting us nowhere.I hope you guys can turn it around soon.I hate being on the losing side.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by Magicfirst:

quote:

Originally posted by Kberto:

I see what you're saying michelle, but I just don't see it that way. Yes, everyone has their favorite players, but only Arroyo fans take it to an unbearable level. I'm a fan of Diener and Redick, but I don't complain every 3 seconds that they're aren't playing like they should be. Some Arroyo fans want to blame everything except for Carlos himself. Carlos is the only one to blame for his benching. I hope he turns it around, but the race card gets played out to the point of nausia. I'm white myself, but I don't insinuate that JJ and Travis don't play because they're white, or because Brian Hill doesn't like them. I just think Brian Hill is stubborn in his ways, and his decisions are very questionable.

 

I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon

 

JJ has a lower mpg than Arroyo does, I believe, and usually he's coming in to replace Grant Hill, who for 90% of the season has done next to nothing from the 2 spot, and who's been part of the starting 5 that have often put us into deep holes. And while Carlos has been a part of pulling us out of some of those holes, it could easily be argued that JJ, Trevor and Darko have all had just as valuable a contribution, which is also the reason why there is a very vocal contingent of people, myself included, who think those three players should be getting more minutes, with the latter two starting. There are a great number of JJ fans, Darko fans and Trevor fans, and that's all ok. Do the fans who post about how Darko should leave Orlando bother me as a magic fan? Absolutely. Darko's a fantastic talent, and I want that on my team. Ditto for Trevor, ditto for JJ.

 

My problem isn't with Carlos, or even Carlos's fans. It's with the notion that Carlos is being persecuted against. I will readily accept any argument about how Carlos is better than Jameer, if that's your opinion, provided it's presented logically, thoughtfully, and respectfully. But accusing me or anyone else on the boards of racism is none of the three. And you, and everyone else on the board as well, also would need to accept sometimes you need to agree to disagree. Ball Junkie and I had a debate about Darko starting over Tony not two weeks ago. We presented our points, agreed to disagree, and moved on.

 

I certainly understand the fact that that's how it is with most of Carlos's fans here on the board. Marc was absolutely right when he said that the minority ruins it for the majority. All I'd ask therefore is that the majority continue to write with class and grace, and also help the rest of us in trying to minimize and marginalize those who post in favor of a single player without regard to courtesy or decency, REGARDLESS of who it is their posting about or what they have to say.

[Emory889 353]

OK Magicfirst, You are the coach of Magic so how long is long enough for Carlos to prove himself? I've seen him get major minutes almost all season with inconsistent results at best. At what point do you say either start producing or sit on the bench?

[Magicfirst 0]

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

quote:

I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon

 

Here's another classic example of what I'm talking about. Another person who thinks that Arroyo being on the bench is entirely based on race and has nothing to do with his poor play. If Brian Hill was such a racist why did he play him immediatly after the trade last season and 80% of this season? It doesn't make any sense to anyone with a little perspective.

 

 

Wow,were did you get the "entirely based on race" part.I was refering to believing you wouldn't feel the same way.Don't show your true colors.

[the Judge 0]

Originally posted by Kberto:

Yes, everyone has their favorite players, but only Arroyo fans take it to an unbearable level. QUOTE]

 

KBERTO,

 

This is what I meant when I said you were part of the reason to start this whole thread.

 

I happen to like the Magic because I am a Puerto Rican Arroyo fan who has never seen Orlando except Disney World. What makes me so unbearable, if I'm only trying to make everybody reason. And you know I'm not the only one.

[Berto 338]

quote:

I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon

 

You used JJ to describe what you think is happening to Carlos. You think racism is why he's not playing. I might be wrong, but when you read through the lines, it's what you're insinuating.

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by Magicfirst:

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

quote:

I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon

 

Here's another classic example of what I'm talking about. Another person who thinks that Arroyo being on the bench is entirely based on race and has nothing to do with his poor play. If Brian Hill was such a racist why did he play him immediatly after the trade last season and 80% of this season? It doesn't make any sense to anyone with a little perspective.

 

 

Wow,were did you get the "entirely based on race" part.I was refering to believing you wouldn't feel the same way.Don't show your true colors.

 

These comments are clearly based on race. Why else would you say it? And let me guess for pointing that out I am now a racist, right? Is that what you mean by "showing my true colors"?