Magicfirst

quote: Originally posted by ibonedteribell:Arroyo did his job and kept us in the game but was benched by Hill, what do you think? Did we need Jameer tonight? Anyone who can find something to b***h about this game has serious problems.How do you find something negative after such a good team effort.I am a so called Arroyo fan but do not seperate him from the team,he helped the team but it was a team effort.If they can play together then we might be able to upset some teams in the playoffs.Hey it could happen.

quote: Originally posted by Magicfirst: quote: Originally posted by Kberto: I'm a fan of Diener and Redick, but I don't complain every 3 seconds that they're aren't playing like they should be. Some Arroyo fans want to blame everything except for Carlos himself... but the race card gets played out to the point of nausia. I'm white myself, but I don't insinuate that JJ and Travis don't play because they're white, I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon Now for all you guys jumping on your high horses,where do you see here that I am saying Bhill is a racist? I am simply pointing out that I would probably believe him if the situtation was different.He says he is White and doesn't feel that way.Me saying I would probably believe him if the situation was different has to do with what I think his character shows.He seems to have negative opinions about Carlos fans, well maybe if the situation was like the one I discribed he would have a different opinion.Get it right

quote: Originally posted by Osprey23: quote: Originally posted by Magicfirst: quote: Originally posted by Osprey23: quote: Originally posted by Magicfirst: quote: Originally posted by Osprey23:Wow. I honestly can't believe we are dropping Uncle Tom references towards posters who are trying to have a meaningful conversation on a deep running problem on this board. Please, giggi and magicfirst, no one has said anything on this thread to incite the kind of venom that is underlying your posts. This is a good thread idea by the Judge (who has proven as of now to be a level-headed post moderator) and there is no reason we can't discuss this in a civil manner. Wow what did I post that was so venomous? The fact that in every one of your posts you play the race card and claim that anti-latin(ism) is prevalent throughout the NBA. Also, simply by stating that BHill is benching Arroyo because he is Puerto Rican with nothing but hearsay evidence drips with disdain and vitriol. Be honest.Is it passed your bedtime.Nowhere do I say that I believe that Bhill is benching Arroyo because he is Puerto Rican,and also nowhere do I say that anti latin ism is rampant in the Nba. You're right, it is getting late. I guess I don't realize how much arguing with incompetent, racist, morons takes out of me. Yeah thats immature, I know, but I don't have the time to repost everything you said. Its already there for everyone to see. I'll let the people who read this thread decode what your ramblings really mean. Maybe you'll learn you can't post whatever you want and not expect to be called on it, then just claim you never said it. It really is the few who ruin it for the rest. Paranoid, racist Arroyo banner-wavers make the level headed ones look guilty by association. Time for bed. I am done with this. Sorry Judge. Wow such venom,you are right it is there for everyone to see.Who just proved they are the imcompetent,racist,moron.Good night it's time for bedtime.

quote: Originally posted by Osprey23: quote: Originally posted by Magicfirst: It's not what I think is happening to Carlos, it is what's happening.The Coach is white,Carlos is the only Puerto Rican on the team,We are losing,Carlos has helped us come back when we were down,and a struggling player is getting all the minutes.I don't see where you would have to read between the lines.It's clear. Right here. There is no other way to interpret this statement. You think BHill is benching Arroyo because BHill is white, and Arroyo isn't. This implies that if Arroyo could help the team, it wouldnt matter because the white-supremacist Hill would'nt play him anyway. YOU obviously think Arroyo could help us win. BHill doesnt. However, YOU think Hill benches Arroyo due to a personal vendetta.[/quote ]I don't know if you are really confused or just pretending so I am going to try to explain it again.I was saying to Kberto that if the situation was different then I probably would believe him,he said that he is a Diener and Reidick fan and that he doesn't feel that way.I said I would probably believe him if the situation was like the one I painted.I don't know where you make that Huge jump into believing I am stating what I believe that.That makes me question your intentions,but I don't know you just like you don't know me.So I wont try to guess for you OK.

quote: Originally posted by Osprey23: quote: Originally posted by Magicfirst: quote: Originally posted by Osprey23:Wow. I honestly can't believe we are dropping Uncle Tom references towards posters who are trying to have a meaningful conversation on a deep running problem on this board. Please, giggi and magicfirst, no one has said anything on this thread to incite the kind of venom that is underlying your posts. This is a good thread idea by the Judge (who has proven as of now to be a level-headed post moderator) and there is no reason we can't discuss this in a civil manner. Wow what did I post that was so venomous? The fact that in every one of your posts you play the race card and claim that anti-latin(ism) is prevalent throughout the NBA. Also, simply by stating that BHill is benching Arroyo because he is Puerto Rican with nothing but hearsay evidence drips with disdain and vitriol. Be honest.Is it passed your bedtime.Nowhere do I say that I believe that Bhill is benching Arroyo because he is Puerto Rican,and also nowhere do I say that anti latin ism is rampant in the Nba.

quote: Originally posted by Osprey23:Are you kidding me magicfirst? Brian Hill would sit a player on the bench who could help him win (knowing that his *** is on the line this year if they don't make the playoffs) just because he is Puerto Rican? Thats absolutely absurd. The best part about athletics is that race plays no part in the actual sport. Winning is the great equalizer. Any coach that wants to keep his job will put his best players out on the floor. We all hate BHill, but do you honestly think he TRIES to lose? It may seem that way at times but it is false. BHill wants to win, he just doesnt know how. And for you to imply that Hill would sacrifice winning to bench a player on purpose is simply ridiculous. Were did you get that I said he would lose on purpose,Or that he would sit him because he is Puerto Rican?

quote: Originally posted by Osprey23:Wow. I honestly can't believe we are dropping Uncle Tom references towards posters who are trying to have a meaningful conversation on a deep running problem on this board. Please, giggi and magicfirst, no one has said anything on this thread to incite the kind of venom that is underlying your posts. This is a good thread idea by the Judge (who has proven as of now to be a level-headed post moderator) and there is no reason we can't discuss this in a civil manner. Wow what did I post that was so venomous?

quote: Originally posted by Kberto: quote: I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon You used JJ to describe what you think is happening to Carlos. You think racism is why he's not playing. I might be wrong, but when you read through the lines, it's what you're insinuating. It's not what I think is happening to Carlos, it is what's happening.The Coach is white,Carlos is the only Puerto Rican on the team,We are losing,Carlos has helped us come back when we were down,and a struggling player is getting all the minutes.I don't see where you would have to read between the lines.It's clear.

quote: Originally posted by emory889: quote: Originally posted by Magicfirst: quote: Originally posted by emory889: quote: I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon Here's another classic example of what I'm talking about. Another person who thinks that Arroyo being on the bench is entirely based on race and has nothing to do with his poor play. If Brian Hill was such a racist why did he play him immediatly after the trade last season and 80% of this season? It doesn't make any sense to anyone with a little perspective. Wow,were did you get the "entirely based on race" part.I was refering to believing you wouldn't feel the same way.Don't show your true colors. These comments are clearly based on race. Why else would you say it? And let me guess for pointing that out I am now a racist, right? Is that what you mean by "showing my true colors"? If the shoe fits. My point was how would you know how you would feel if you are not in that situation?You then said another person who thinks that Arroyo being on the bench is entirely based on race.Again were did you get that from.Because I didn't make any such statement,you are assumming.

quote: Originally posted by emory889:OK Magicfirst, You are the coach of Magic so how long is long enough for Carlos to prove himself? I've seen him get major minutes almost all season with inconsistent results at best. At what point do you say either start producing or sit on the bench? Well now that I am the coach.Carlos minutes are not important,what's important is momemtum and What ever starters I put on the floor when I don't see the intensity then I am making the changes.The amount of minutes is not important.Bhills recipe for most of the year was Jammeer played the first period until about two minutes then Carlos played for about eight minutes,then Jammeer finished.Then mostly the same for the second half.I sometimes wondered why he even showed up for some of the games.Any one could of made those subs.If you go back and look at most of the games the starters put us in holes and He never tried to change momemtum.Anyone who's ever played any Bball knows it's alot easier to make shots when your ahead.So if Carlos helped the team maintain a lead or brought us momemtum then he would get as many minutes as was neaded to continue,but if he didn't then we have to try something else.How about Diener with a couple of threes?

quote: Originally posted by emory889: quote: I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon Here's another classic example of what I'm talking about. Another person who thinks that Arroyo being on the bench is entirely based on race and has nothing to do with his poor play. If Brian Hill was such a racist why did he play him immediatly after the trade last season and 80% of this season? It doesn't make any sense to anyone with a little perspective. Wow,were did you get the "entirely based on race" part.I was refering to believing you wouldn't feel the same way.Don't show your true colors.

quote: Originally posted by Kberto:I see what you're saying michelle, but I just don't see it that way. Yes, everyone has their favorite players, but only Arroyo fans take it to an unbearable level. I'm a fan of Diener and Redick, but I don't complain every 3 seconds that they're aren't playing like they should be. Some Arroyo fans want to blame everything except for Carlos himself. Carlos is the only one to blame for his benching. I hope he turns it around, but the race card gets played out to the point of nausia. I'm white myself, but I don't insinuate that JJ and Travis don't play because they're white, or because Brian Hill doesn't like them. I just think Brian Hill is stubborn in his ways, and his decisions are very questionable. I think I would believe you if the Coach was Puerto Rican and JJ was the only white player on the team. And We were losing, and he was bringing us back when we were down, and never got to play because a struggling player got all the playing time.But I don't see that happening any time soon

quote: Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:Great thread Judge! When Carlos first got here we were all very happy about how he played and how he helped us win. Shortly after just about every thread had some sort of Carlos spin to it. If Jameer missed a basket (this was when he was playing well)there were multiple threads popping up about how Jameer stunk and Carlos should start. I agree that the disagreement has to do with human nature, but I don't think it is because of ethnocentricity. If someone tells you day after day after day, that something is the best and every where you turned you saw people saying how this thing is the best (my favorite is the repeating of how PR beat team USA and that Carlos was better than US players because of this)you eventually get burnt out. I believe that this is what happened. When Carlos has a good game, no one wants to talk about it because it gets rubbed in their faces. People want him traded just so they don't have to hear about him anymore. Think about this, if your favorite group has a new song on the radio, and the radio stations play that song a million times don't you eventually get sick of that song? It's Arroyo-fatigue, the more people defend him, the more people get tired of hearing about him and they lash out, which causes his fans to get defensive and attack back. That is why this will never end. You hit it on the nail,but let's just all have a big hug and the Magic will bring home the RING.JK

quote: Originally posted by Kberto:This argument will never end. Everyone has made up their mind one way or another how they feel about the situation. I aprreciate your efforts to lay out the problem in an objective and non bias way not taking side For some people they rather make this something other than a basketball discussion, and try to place the blame somewhere it doesn't belong. Unfortunately, I don't see this feud ending anytime soon. In fact this thread will probably turn into another argument. It will end when we are winning,I still don't understand why so many people don't want to give Carlos a chance to help the team when they claim to want the Magic to win.