The Road to the White House

[SmackDaddy 30]

I'm really glad that we can discuss/argue these topics on this forum with a great deal of intellect and a good degree of tolerance. Who would have thought that on a basketball forum we would be able to participate in such informative and varied social/political discussions?

 

I would being willing to bet that the majority of us would agree on a large portion of the key issues.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

HEY! you missed all my good points around 25 pages back. I wish this debate would move away from economics. I dont have as much knowledge as other posters.

 

What else do you want to talk about? The floor is yours.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

HEY! you missed all my good points around 25 pages back. I wish this debate would move away from economics. I dont have as much knowledge as other posters.

 

What else do you want to talk about? The floor is yours.

 

It would be rude of me to stop any debate with unresolved points still being made.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

I'm not sure how you define wiser, but the more education you gain the more likely you are to be liberal.

 

2nd time you've attempted to pass this half truth off as some type of meaningful indicator in this thread.

 

Unfortunately for your implication, one is not more likely to be liberal with education, and only very slightly more likely to be liberal at the PH.D level of education.

 

When such a high degree of those liberals work in education, this is indicative of little more than what we previously discussed about teachers and liberalism.

 

You're right. I should clarify that.

 

Having a college degree is pretty much a wash. However, those who obtain a post graduate or Ph.D. do tend to be more liberal. Within that there are differences, such as those with MBA's tend to be more conservative then those with M.A.'s in the social sciences, i.e. Social Work and Political Science.

 

In interest of full disclosure, those who fail to graduate from high school are more liberal (and are minorities).

 

You're taking some liberties here at the Bachelor and Masters levels, but this is more realistic. I would still point out that even at the Doctoral level one is not most likely to be liberal, only more likely.

 

Realistically, the percentages across the board at every level in any category are irrelevent except among minorities & members of the very lowest socio-economic backgrounds. Which are overwhelmingly Dems.

 

Kerry is the first Presidential candidate to receive a majority of votes from college educated Americans to my knowledge. It will be interesting to see if that develops into a new trend.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

I'm not saying you should vote for Obama! How about Bob Barr?

 

If he was bold enough to seize the assets entirely of those executives and politicians that have perpetrated criminal acts on Wall Street and on Capital Hill that have directly led to the current economic hardships that may take decades for our citizens to recover from fully..with a resounding yes.

 

You see, although I am great believer in the conservative thought process, I am not entirely convinced that we find ourselves in a clearly Democratic or Republican enduced conundrum. Therefore, it may take something other than a clearly Democratic or Republican resolution.

 

I am fully convinced it will take a non-partisan candidate to highlight the failures of both parties operating in dismarmonic unity.

 

Bob Barr however is nothing more than a failed Republican who's re-invented himself to sustain political viability.

 

I saw him interviewed by Glenn Beck and it was absolutely embarassing. Beck made him look like an idiot and he supports the libertarian positions Barr professes.

[fan for too long 16]

Wow I am getting eyestrain from reading all the pages I missed. I know you all were waiting for my comments on the age thing, LOL.

 

Well being the eldest at 44 years young. I would agree with DOM on this one. Experience does not necessarily make you overall more intelligent. It has many variables. It may make you smarter in ways that you have had experiences with and make you more stupid in places that you have had no experience or have been swayed and or tilted in a manner by the people that you are involved with or listen to.

 

For example I was surrounding by mostly conservative people when I grew up and when I was in high school, I supported Ronald Reagan. As I look back on it, it was one of the stupidest decisions of my life. But not because of my age, it was my peers and the people I listened at the time to. The information that you consume is what you base your beliefs on and everybody consumes different info. This is what make us more intelligent or less intelligent. Time just gives us a better chance at getting truthful information. It is not a guarantee of being more intelligent.

 

PS. Killing I watched that YouTube video on Freidman and it was interesting. He is a very smart man in his own economic way. Try watching some of Noam Chomsky's video's on Capitalism and get back to me on why you think the free interprise system is the be all to end all.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by fan for too long:

Try watching some of Noam Chomsky's video's on Capitalism and get back to me on why you think the free interprise system is the be all to end all.

 

Give me a link of what you would like me to responde to and I would be happy. I know he is a Nadar socialist and while I respect their view of the opressive nature of the political power structure I believe their utopian ideals are beyond idealistic.

 

For starters, they don't believe working is a natural obligation of man to sustain himself. The idea that individuals within communities will work to support those who choose not to without reward is rather silly imo.

[fan for too long 16]

Here is a couple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFxYyXGMfZM&feature=related

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_sgpq1P_iA&feature=related

[Ag 0]

Have you guys thought about the possibility of another perspective besides the liberal and the conservative being discussed in this thread? What if Capitalism, as was before Feudalism in Europe, is "destined" to disappear because of its own contradictions?Could it be that classical liberalism (nowadays "neo-liberalism") and Keynesianism are both alternatively used to manage the contradictions of the Capitalist mode of production depending of the stage of the economic cycle? Is there a way out of the recurrent cycle of Capitalist crisis? For me (and many others) the future of humanity depends on whether mankind can construct a new social system (call it socialism or whatever you want, the name is not important) where the capitalist contradictions no longer control our lives and create this mess. The Burgess class created the conditions for constructing a society according to their interests and world view by means of political revolutions against the feudal institutions, but history does not end with capitalism, I hope! Is today's crisis the beginning of the end of Capitalism? We can no continue with this barbaric situation created by Capital, there is no socialist URSS to blame now! What mess is next? WW-III?

 

 

The Political Economy of the Twentieth CenturyBy Samir Amin-June 2000.

 

http://www.monthlyreview.org/600amin.htm

 

 

quote:

The political economy of the nineteenth century was dominated by the figures of the great classics

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Alright, what are the inherent contradictions you think contributed to the fall of Feudalism?

 

Because I can think of a lot of reasons Feudalism failed, and inherent contradictions to the system aren't any of them.

[Ned Ryerson 94]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

I'm not sure how you define wiser, but the more education you gain the more likely you are to be liberal.

 

2nd time you've attempted to pass this half truth off as some type of meaningful indicator in this thread.

 

Unfortunately for your implication, one is not more likely to be liberal with education, and only very slightly more likely to be liberal at the PH.D level of education.

 

When such a high degree of those liberals work in education, this is indicative of little more than what we previously discussed about teachers and liberalism.

 

You're right. I should clarify that.

 

Having a college degree is pretty much a wash. However, those who obtain a post graduate or Ph.D. do tend to be more liberal. Within that there are differences, such as those with MBA's tend to be more conservative then those with M.A.'s in the social sciences, i.e. Social Work and Political Science.

 

In interest of full disclosure, those who fail to graduate from high school are more liberal (and are minorities).

 

You're taking some liberties here at the Bachelor and Masters levels, but this is more realistic. I would still point out that even at the Doctoral level one is not most likely to be liberal, only more likely.

 

Realistically, the percentages across the board at every level in any category are irrelevent except among minorities & members of the very lowest socio-economic backgrounds. Which are overwhelmingly Dems.

 

Kerry is the first Presidential candidate to receive a majority of votes from college educated Americans to my knowledge. It will be interesting to see if that develops into a new trend.

 

Part of that explanation of voting behavior of college graduates in previous elections can be attributed to variables such as the wealth and education of their parents, their race, their gender, etc.

 

The trend we are starting to see is because of the increasing number of Americans who have access to a college education, and who do not- in comparison to the previous population of college educated Americans- share their upbringing.

[Ag 0]

quote:

DOM:

 

Alright, what are the inherent contradictions you think contributed to the fall of Feudalism?

 

Because I can think of a lot of reasons Feudalism failed, and inherent contradictions to the system aren't any of them.

 

I assume that you are referring to my earlier post.

 

I did not say "inherent contradictions" as you state, I said Feudalism's "own contradictions", that is not the same. Late Feudalism economic social relations developed[ as any other class society that ever existed, including -of course- Capitalism] intense contradictions between the social classes within the system. The feudal class in the need of monetary wealth (required by the increased influence of commercial relations) tried to extract from its serfs more and more money for the payment of rent,therefore, exploiting the serfs to the limit, who in turn responded with various rebellions in France (1358),England (1381),Prussia (1417-1435), Russia (1773-1775), and many others. That situation , on the other hand, gave increasing economic power to the commercial class who later challenged the whole feudal system with the help of the other classes contrary to the Feudal class. Class struggle is the expression of the contradictory economic interests of the classes in every society.

 

However, what is your point? Because my point is that humanity should construct a better society than Capitalism!