Anyone besides me starting to worry a bit?

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

Hmmm...

 

So some of you think that the tendem of Rashard and Dwight is the second coming of Shaq & Kobe, but the triple threat of KG, Allen, & Pierce is nothing to get excited about???

 

Each one of those three players has been discusses in MVP talks over the last 3-8 years.

 

Last year they averaged:

 

Allen - 26pts, 4.5 reb, 4 ast

Pierce - 25pts, 5.9 reb, 4.1 ast

Garnett - 22.4 pts, 12.8 reb, 4.1 ast, 1.7 blk

 

That gives the Cetics 3 scorers that ranked in the top 17 in the NBA last year. It also gives them the NBA's back to back rebounding champ.

 

I've heard it discussed on this forum that the foundation of a good team is a good post player and a good wing player. Well, the Celtics will have that plus one of the leagues top 5 scorers to boot.

 

I've also heard it discussed on this forum that the Magic will be able to fill the roster with general role players to surround Dwight & Shard and that's all it will take to win a championship. Well, IMO, the Celtics have now vaulted themselves way in front of us for the rights to sign all those mid-level role players to surround their dominant three, not two.

 

Also, don't sleep on their draft pick of Gabe Pruitt.

 

Frankly, I would love to be in their position right now (with Dwight instead of KG). Had Otis been more creative then just throwing the check book at the biggest free agent name out there, we very well could have fielded a team that included three big names to go with our young prospects, Jameer, JJ, Ariza.

 

Let's also not forget that Rashard was the Sonics second option behind Allen for a reason. Allen is a dominant player that demands double teams and defensive scheming to stop him.

 

As for all the aging, injury talk. Both Pierce & Allen had very minor injuries that have already been addressed. They were both pulled the last 15-20 games of the season for lottery ping pong balls.

 

Man I swear, sometimes you guys drink too much of the Magic kool-aid while remaining parched for all around NBA insight.

 

I wouldn't say I think Dwight and Rashard are Shaq and Kobe so I'm not quite that overboard, but while there is no doubt the Celtics would be tougher they still aren't a title team. Yes those guys were all MVP candidates over the last 3-8 yrs but that is a long time in basketball years.

 

KG wants an extension of 5 yrs for 125 mill, if you factor in Pierce and Allen's salary, if they do this trade, that is what they will have and will not be able to add any further. That would be fine if they still didn't need a PG and people that can defend. That team will be able to score but like I said they will get killed defensively. Denver had the top 2 scorers in the league last year and they didn't get too far in the playoffs because they couldn't defend. They had just as many defensive players if not better ones than Boston would have and it got them no where. This is a gamble on a 2 yr window that removes their young building block, cap's them out till the 2010-2011 season at the least, and still doesn't give them a team that can win a title. It will make them relevant and put butts in the seats and that is it.

 

I know this may sound stupid since it's a whole different ball game but I look at it like this. If USA basketball can't win it all, and they have all stars and stars of the NBA on the team, then what makes you think having KG,Allen, and Pierce is a guarenteed title? It's all about team chemistry. Great teams have great chemistry. Look at the past couple of teams who have won a title.

 

What i'm saying is that just because you have 3 all stars on your team, doesn't make you a guarenteed winner. Look at the nets. They have Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson. They haven't gone anywhere in the past couple years besides a few playoffs runs. Big names don't mean everything. Theres no denying their talent, but theres still more to it than that.

[Peganite1 0]

I just think they are going to have zero depth at any other position and those three can't play 48 minutes a night. I would pick them to be a top three team in the east this year but we aren't ready yet anyway so that doesn't concern me. With Allan and Pierce their window is right now so this KG trade makes sence. In 2-3 years they will be stuck with some big contracts and become a lotto team.

[ufballer86 0]

this is gonna be sick for boston no doubt. the only thing that could stop them is injuries. theyre gonna have to sign kg to an extension, even if its three years then theyll have his ugly contract locked up for 5 more years. allens comes off the books in three, pauls in 4. so theyll prob end up havin to pay kg 25 mill per for 7 more years but have mass capspace come from allen/pierces contracts in the somewhat near future. kinda like a shaq deal w/ kg, past his prime although still very productive but do you want to be paying him 25 at 37? i like our base better, cant wish for a better centerpiece than dwight

[LJ Magic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

Hmmm...

 

So some of you think that the tendem of Rashard and Dwight is the second coming of Shaq & Kobe, but the triple threat of KG, Allen, & Pierce is nothing to get excited about???

 

Each one of those three players has been discusses in MVP talks over the last 3-8 years.

 

Last year they averaged:

 

Allen - 26pts, 4.5 reb, 4 ast

Pierce - 25pts, 5.9 reb, 4.1 ast

Garnett - 22.4 pts, 12.8 reb, 4.1 ast, 1.7 blk

 

That gives the Cetics 3 scorers that ranked in the top 17 in the NBA last year. It also gives them the NBA's back to back rebounding champ.

 

I've heard it discussed on this forum that the foundation of a good team is a good post player and a good wing player. Well, the Celtics will have that plus one of the leagues top 5 scorers to boot.

 

I've also heard it discussed on this forum that the Magic will be able to fill the roster with general role players to surround Dwight & Shard and that's all it will take to win a championship. Well, IMO, the Celtics have now vaulted themselves way in front of us for the rights to sign all those mid-level role players to surround their dominant three, not two.

 

Also, don't sleep on their draft pick of Gabe Pruitt.

 

Frankly, I would love to be in their position right now (with Dwight instead of KG). Had Otis been more creative then just throwing the check book at the biggest free agent name out there, we very well could have fielded a team that included three big names to go with our young prospects, Jameer, JJ, Ariza.

 

Let's also not forget that Rashard was the Sonics second option behind Allen for a reason. Allen is a dominant player that demands double teams and defensive scheming to stop him.

 

As for all the aging, injury talk. Both Pierce & Allen had very minor injuries that have already been addressed. They were both pulled the last 15-20 games of the season for lottery ping pong balls.

 

Man I swear, sometimes you guys drink too much of the Magic kool-aid while remaining parched for all around NBA insight.

 

I wouldn't say I think Dwight and Rashard are Shaq and Kobe so I'm not quite that overboard, but while there is no doubt the Celtics would be tougher they still aren't a title team. Yes those guys were all MVP candidates over the last 3-8 yrs but that is a long time in basketball years.

 

KG wants an extension of 5 yrs for 125 mill, if you factor in Pierce and Allen's salary, if they do this trade, that is what they will have and will not be able to add any further. That would be fine if they still didn't need a PG and people that can defend. That team will be able to score but like I said they will get killed defensively. Denver had the top 2 scorers in the league last year and they didn't get too far in the playoffs because they couldn't defend. They had just as many defensive players if not better ones than Boston would have and it got them no where. This is a gamble on a 2 yr window that removes their young building block, cap's them out till the 2010-2011 season at the least, and still doesn't give them a team that can win a title. It will make them relevant and put butts in the seats and that is it.

 

Have you watched many Celtic games? I am a big Magic fan but live in New England and therefore see the Celtics an awful lot. Rajon Rondo, though he can't shoot, will be one of the best defensive points in the league. He is very long and a great defender. He won't need to shoot much with Allen, Pierce, and Garnett so he can concentrate on defense and passing. Kendrick Perkins is also an underated defender. I assume he will man the center spot. Coming off the bench, assuming his ACL recovers, the have Tony Allen. Tony Allen is every bit as good a defender as Trevor Ariza. He is quick, strong, and has great hands. They also have Ryan Gomes off the bench. He is not a great defender but is a very good bench player. They also got Big Baby Davis draft night and he could turn into a solid rotation player as well. I'm with Smack Daddy. I think some overhype Orlando's own players while severely discounting other team's. If we had Gomes, Rondo, and Tony Allen you guys would be loving them.

[SmackDaddy 30]

I don't even know where to begin. Guys, go back and read my posts in this thread.

 

The Celts had Pierce and he wasn't going to be happy waiting for Jefferson, West, Rondo to mature and develop.

 

This team is built to win championships right now. And if they don't hang title banners, they will have 65 million coming off their cap in a few years to begin rebuilding.

 

The Celtics didn't even make the playoffs last year and with the addition of KG, they would be heads and tails better than the Magic.

 

Ainge is doing a great job of making aggressive moves that will not cap out his team for 6 years. They have a 3-4 year window and if that doesn't work, cap space is cleared with the expiring contracts.

 

Marc - Are you seriously comparing the Nuggets who were very competitive in the Western Conference to the Celtics? First off, the Celtics don't play in the Western Conference, that is evident. Denver was the 6th seed out there. The Celts were the 2nd worst team in the NBA, and what did they have that could improve their team? A first round pick where they got screwed by the ping pong balls and a few young prospects. They didn't have 15 million in cap space and the expiring contracts of Darko & G Hill.

 

So, they had less to work with in terms of leverage and will improve by leaps and bounds if they can acquire KG. And what will they have given up? A first round pick and a few solid players with potential. Sound familiar?

 

We had more solid players with potential than Boston and had millions in cap space to operate with and all we did was commit every penny of our cap space to sign a single player to a very questionable long-term deal.

 

Point is, every time one of the other NBA GMs pulls off a deal like this where they aren't "waiting to see who falls to us", it will magnify Otis' mistakes and lack of creativity.

 

I'm surprised at some of you guys. Still willing to buy the company sales pitch.

 

WAIT THREE TO FOUR YEARS AND WE WILL CONTEND FOR TITLES!!!

 

I'm tired of watching management botch everything. I'm tired of waiting for our team to contend.

 

This was supposed to be the Summer that we lept into the rank of contenders and so far all we have done is make all the other teams look better.

[richnba 3]

Boston has 3 aging stars who are all past there primes, they will be good but come on. If they had got all three of them 3-4 years ago then I have them winning the East, but no way. We can beat them, it is just that are names arent as big as theres, but we could be beat them in a seven game series

 

Nelson-Rondo/Telfair

Ariza-Pierce

Lewis-Allen

unknown-unknown

Howard-Garnett

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

I don't even know where to begin. Guys, go back and read my posts in this thread.

 

The Celts had Pierce and he wasn't going to be happy waiting for Jefferson, West, Rondo to mature and develop.

 

This team is built to win championships right now. And if they don't hang title banners, they will have 65 million coming off their cap in a few years to begin rebuilding.

 

The Celtics didn't even make the playoffs last year and with the addition of KG, they would be heads and tails better than the Magic.

 

Ainge is doing a great job of making aggressive moves that will not cap out his team for 6 years. They have a 3-4 year window and if that doesn't work, cap space is cleared with the expiring contracts.

 

Marc - Are you seriously comparing the Nuggets who were very competitive in the Western Conference to the Celtics? First off, the Celtics don't play in the Western Conference, that is evident. Denver was the 6th seed out there. The Celts were the 2nd worst team in the NBA, and what did they have that could improve their team? A first round pick where they got screwed by the ping pong balls and a few young prospects. They didn't have 15 million in cap space and the expiring contracts of Darko & G Hill.

 

So, they had less to work with in terms of leverage and will improve by leaps and bounds if they can acquire KG. And what will they have given up? A first round pick and a few solid players with potential. Sound familiar?

 

We had more solid players with potential than Boston and had millions in cap space to operate with and all we did was commit every penny of our cap space to sign a single player to a very questionable long-term deal.

 

Point is, every time one of the other NBA GMs pulls off a deal like this where they aren't "waiting to see who falls to us", it will magnify Otis' mistakes and lack of creativity.

 

I'm surprised at some of you guys. Still willing to buy the company sales pitch.

 

WAIT THREE TO FOUR YEARS AND WE WILL CONTEND FOR TITLES!!!

 

I'm tired of watching management botch everything. I'm tired of waiting for our team to contend.

 

This was supposed to be the Summer that we lept into the rank of contenders and so far all we have done is make all the other teams look better.

 

There is no way we have more solid options to trade off than Boston does. Boston has a deep bench full of young talent who have shown brilliance. Thats what the teams who trade the KG's and the Allen's are looking for. You mean to tell me we could have gotten KG for Garrity, Arroyo, Dooling, and somebody like that? No way. They would have asked for Howard, Nelson, Reddick and Ariza. Those are our core guys. I don't know about you, but i'd rather just sit tight and wait. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But no way do I want to trade our core guys and watch them go on to be all stars for the next 10 years, then not win a title with a guy that could be an all star for maybe the next 3 years. Development is key in any sport. Kobe wasn't a 30ppg guy coming straight out of high school. Guys take time.

 

Point being, it's a good trade for the Celtics for what there doing right now. For Orlando? Not so much. We got our star to build around. As for the Lewis signing, lets wait until the season starts to pass final judgement.

[LJ Magic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by richnba:

Boston has 3 aging stars who are all past there primes, they will be good but come on. If they had got all three of them 3-4 years ago then I have them winning the East, but no way. We can beat them, it is just that are names arent as big as theres, but we could be beat them in a seven game series

 

Nelson-West

Ariza-Pierce

Lewis-Allen

unknown-unknown

Howard-Garnett

 

This post says it all for me. The Celtics don't even have Delonte West anymore. He was traded to Seattle.

 

Most likely they will start:

 

Rajon Rondo - Great defender and distributor.

Ray Allen - A lot of you wanted to trade for him and now he is washed up?!?!

Paul Pierce

Kevin Garnett

Kendrick Perkins - Good low post defender. Does he need to do anything else? He is a young Battie at worst.

 

Bench:

 

Tony Allen - If healthy he is as good as Ariza

Ryan Gomes

Glen Davis

Leon Powe - Scrappy PF/C

 

 

They are thin at point guard but pretty solid everywhere else. Gomes and Allen can score off the bench and Rondo, Perkins, Allen and Powe are all very good defenders.

[richnba 3]

quote:

Originally posted by LJ Magic:

quote:

Originally posted by richnba:

Boston has 3 aging stars who are all past there primes, they will be good but come on. If they had got all three of them 3-4 years ago then I have them winning the East, but no way. We can beat them, it is just that are names arent as big as theres, but we could be beat them in a seven game series

 

Nelson-West

Ariza-Pierce

Lewis-Allen

unknown-unknown

Howard-Garnett

 

This post says it all for me. The Celtics don't even have Delonte West anymore. He was traded to Seattle.

 

Most likely they will start:

 

Rajon Rondo - Great defender and distributor.

Ray Allen - A lot of you wanted to trade for him and now he is washed up?!?!

Paul Pierce

Kevin Garnett

Kendrick Perkins - Good low post defender. Does he need to do anything else? He is a young Battie at worst.

 

Bench:

 

Tony Allen - If healthy he is as good as Ariza

Ryan Gomes

Glen Davis

Leon Powe - Scrappy PF/C

 

 

They are thin at point guard but pretty solid everywhere else. Gomes and Allen can score off the bench and Rondo, Perkins, Allen and Powe are all very good defenders.

 

How does it say it all?

[LJ Magic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by richnba:

quote:

Originally posted by LJ Magic:

quote:

Originally posted by richnba:

Boston has 3 aging stars who are all past there primes, they will be good but come on. If they had got all three of them 3-4 years ago then I have them winning the East, but no way. We can beat them, it is just that are names arent as big as theres, but we could be beat them in a seven game series

 

Nelson-West

Ariza-Pierce

Lewis-Allen

unknown-unknown

Howard-Garnett

 

This post says it all for me. The Celtics don't even have Delonte West anymore. He was traded to Seattle.

 

Most likely they will start:

 

Rajon Rondo - Great defender and distributor.

Ray Allen - A lot of you wanted to trade for him and now he is washed up?!?!

Paul Pierce

Kevin Garnett

Kendrick Perkins - Good low post defender. Does he need to do anything else? He is a young Battie at worst.

 

Bench:

 

Tony Allen - If healthy he is as good as Ariza

Ryan Gomes

Glen Davis

Leon Powe - Scrappy PF/C

 

 

They are thin at point guard but pretty solid everywhere else. Gomes and Allen can score off the bench and Rondo, Perkins, Allen and Powe are all very good defenders.

 

How does it say it all?

 

Because people are trashing the Celtic's lineup and they don't even know who is on the team (Delonte West). That, to me, says that they don't follow what that team is doing or has done and certainly haven't seen them play except against Orlando.

[richnba 3]

Oh I miss one player, and no I dont follow every move the Celtics make, I dont particulary like the Celtics, that doesnt mean I dont know what I am talking about we can beat them.

 

They have 3 agign stars whom we could combat.

 

As I said we have good talent all we are missing is a pf.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

There is no way we have more solid options to trade off than Boston does. Boston has a deep bench full of young talent who have shown brilliance. Thats what the teams who trade the KG's and the Allen's are looking for. You mean to tell me we could have gotten KG for Garrity, Arroyo, Dooling, and somebody like that? No way. They would have asked for Howard, Nelson, Reddick and Ariza. Those are our core guys. I don't know about you, but i'd rather just sit tight and wait. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But no way do I want to trade our core guys and watch them go on to be all stars for the next 10 years, then not win a title with a guy that could be an all star for maybe the next 3 years. Development is key in any sport. Kobe wasn't a 30ppg guy coming straight out of high school. Guys take time.

 

Point being, it's a good trade for the Celtics for what there doing right now. For Orlando? Not so much. We got our star to build around. As for the Lewis signing, lets wait until the season starts to pass final judgement.

 

I didn't say anything about trading only our expiring contracts, I said we had cap-space, expiring contracts, and solid young players with potential (JJ , Jameer, Ariza, Darko).

 

 

So, yes indeed, we did have more to work with.

 

Secondly, I'm not comparing the moves the Celtics have made directly to the Magic and how those same moves would have improved our team. I'm comparing other teams in the East that have made moves that have significantly improved their teams relevant to what they had. Meanwhile, at this point, I don't think the Magic have improved significantly when looking at what we had to work with and how al that leverage was mismanaged.