2023 NBA Draft Day Thread

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

44 minutes ago, Jon said:

I watched full games of him.

 

I’m not super knowledgeable about scheme and personnel. I know they had talent. As two other guys went in the draft (Nick Smith Jr and Jordan Walsh). Their coach Mussleman  was a assistant for us a while back and has been around. He’s an old school coach who loves gritty players and is very defensive minded. Watching BlacK I can see the influence he’s had on him. Athlete who plays football, can run and jump, plays defense, always hustling on every play  and gets to the line a lot. That’s middleman’s philosophy to a T and two things that stand out in the eye test and in the numbers.

Right.. I'm just confused by you saying you watched full games and then saying you "read they had bad spacing". I can't imagine you'd need to read that if you'd seen it with your eyes. They had essentially 1 half decent shooter (34%) healthy for the majority of the season. 

Their best scorer (Ricky Council IV - who's actually a good player he might make the league tbh, just signed a deal with Philly) shot 27% from 3. Their 2 best shooters played 9 and 17 games respectively (and 17 games doesn't really tell the story with Nick Smith given he didn't look healthy in some of the games he did play). And they only played 2, early season, games with both available (not counting a game where Nick Smith played 6 minutes). 

I just can't really fathom the idea that Black only makes "simple passes" if you've watched him actually play. (Unless we have very different understanding of the word "simple"). He doesn't necessarily make flashy passes. But that doesn't mean they're simple reads he's making.

You said you didn't really see someone getting loads of assists when you watched him. This quote from you feels appropriate:

On 6/23/2023 at 5:49 PM, Jon said:

You know what you need for assists to count too? Guys who can shoot.

 

[Jon 30]

2 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

Right I'm just confused by you saying you watched full games and then saying you "read they had bad spacing". I can't imagine you'd need to read that if you'd seen it with your eyes. They had essentially 1 half decent shooter (34%) healthy for the majority of the season. 

Their best scorer (Ricky Council IV - who's actually a good player he might make the league tbh, just signed a deal with Philly) shot 27% from 3. Their 2 best shooters played 9 and 17 games respectively (and 17 games doesn't really tell the story with Nick Smith given he didn't look healthy in some of the games he did play). And they only played 2, early season, games with both available (not counting a game where Nick Smith played 6 minutes). 

I just can't really fathom the idea that Black only makes "simple passes" if you've watched him actually play. (Unless we have very different understanding of the word "simple"). 

You said you didn't really see someone getting loads of assists when you watched him. This quote from you feels appropriate:

 

i  never said I watched Arkansas games. I said I watched HIM. It wasn’t until the last few days before the draft I really started to dive into him more as he was starting to rise and our name started to tie with his. 

 I can sense the environment he was in with a lack of spacing. They weren’t running many plays for outside shots from the clips I saw of him. A lot of cutting inside, rolling to the paint, and getting to the line. 

I played PG my entire life. I view passing as an art. Not just a skill. Court vision/reads/shifty with the ball/passing/dribbling was a passion for me so I’m a little more judgmental when it comes to that.

“Simple passes.”Textbook ones, good textbook reads which is not a knock on Black. I was frustrated with the JKidd comp at the time I read so my apologies. JKidd was another animal. He was one of my favorite players. A guy I would study passing wise. I don’t think  people remember how he wasn’t just textbook and could make good reads but the Rodman of passing the ball. Court vision and reading 5 steps ahead. Also how shifty he was with the ball. Able to create assists/plays by dribbling and manipulating  defenders (also why Penny is my favorite Magic player). His ability to throw a no look in the situation he was in at times was on another planet. Dude averaged high number assists on any team his entire basketball career up until the last two years.

I have since gone back and watch Giddy more. I can see SOME of that more than Kidd but  even Giddy seems more of a shifty PG who has a higher degree of creativity to his court vision though. AB looks like an athlete with an good iq who makes good reads. It’s not a bad thing. I was wrong for making it out to be like it was. I just don’t like the JKidd comps.
 

Maybe there’s something more. Hopefully he is because if there isn’t, I feel we have a lot of the same.
 

 

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

7 minutes ago, Jon said:

i  never said I watched Arkansas games. I said I watched HIM. It wasn’t until the last few days before the draft I really started to dive into him more as he was starting to rise and our name started to tie with his. 

 I can sense the environment he was in with a lack of spacing. They weren’t running many plays for outside shots from the clips I saw of him. A lot of cutting inside, rolling to the paint, and getting to the line. 

I played PG my entire life. I view passing as an art. Not just a skill. Court vision/reads/shifty with the ball/passing/dribbling was a passion for me so I’m a little more judgmental when it comes to that.

“Simple passes.”Textbook ones, good textbook reads which is not a knock on Black. I was frustrated with the JKidd comp at the time I read so my apologies. JKidd was another animal. He was one of my favorite players. A guy I would study passing wise. I don’t think  people remember how he wasn’t just textbook and could make good reads but the Rodman of passing the ball. Court vision and reading 5 steps ahead. Also how shifty he was with the ball. Able to create assists/plays by dribbling and manipulating  defenders (also why Penny is my favorite Magic player). His ability to throw a no look in the situation he was in at times was on another planet. Dude averaged high number assists on any team his entire basketball career up until the last two years.

I have since gone back and watch Giddy more. I can see SOME of that more than Kidd but  even Giddy seems more of a shifty PG who has a higher degree of creativity to his court vision though. AB looks like an athlete with an good iq who makes good reads. It’s not a bad thing. I was wrong for making it out to be like it was. I just don’t like the JKidd comps.
 

Maybe there’s something more. Hopefully he is because if there isn’t, I feel we have a lot of the same.
 

 

I don't understand how you can have watched full games of him and not any full Arkansas games... 

Regardless, I appreciate your takes, I'm enjoying the discussion. 

EDIT: I also don't think Jason Kidd is a reasonable comp either. 

[hootie249 293]

My life in Denver has been chaotic and i have moved 3 times including a big move this week. However i am still a Magic fan so i'm going to comment on the draft.

First, i can't believe that our gm's passed on the two forwards. Guess i read them all wrong. Or maybe it's because we have our starting frontcourt already. Either way i am shocked because either Walker or Hendricks would have been great depth on cheap rookie deals for 4 years. I bet one of them becomes an All-star.

As far as Anthony Black, i just don't know. Like every Magic fan has said he has strong Elfrid vibes going on. Lots of mock drafts had us picking Black while most Magic forums were not even talking about him as a possibility. 

Studying history shows us the future and that pick reminds me of Bamba. Tons of mocks had us picking Bamba and it just seemed like the kind of pick made because the guy they really wanted was gone. 

As far as Jett that was a more predictable pick. Nepotism all the way, but he is a good player and scorer, so he fits the idea of what we wanted. Anyhow it was a surprising draft, go MAGIC!

 

[Jon 30]

3 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

I don't understand how you can have watched full games of him and not any full Arkansas games... 

Regardless, I appreciate your takes, I'm enjoying the discussion. 

EDIT: I also don't think Jason Kidd is a reasonable comp either. 

You can watch full games of a specific player so you can see not just the good parts . You can see the bad as well.

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

1 minute ago, Jon said:

You can watch full games of a specific player so you can see not just the good parts . You can see the bad as well.

How, if you don't mind me asking? Might be useful for scouting in the future. 

[Jon 30]

Just now, hootie249 said:

My life in Denver has been chaotic and i have moved 3 times including a big move this week. However i am still a Magic fan so i'm going to comment on the draft.

First, i can't believe that our gm's passed on the two forwards. Guess i read them all wrong. Or maybe it's because we have our starting frontcourt already. Either way i am shocked because either Walker or Hendricks would have been great depth on cheap rookie deals for 4 years. I bet one of them becomes an All-star.

As far as Anthony Black, i just don't know. Like every Magic fan has said he has strong Elfrid vibes going on. Lots of mock drafts had us picking Black while most Magic forums were not even talking about him as a possibility. 

Studying history shows us the future and that pick reminds me of Bamba. Tons of mocks had us picking Bamba and it just seemed like the kind of pick made because the guy they really wanted was gone. 

As far as Jett that was a more predictable pick. Nepotism all the way, but he is a good player and scorer, so he fits the idea of what we wanted. Anyhow it was a surprising draft, go MAGIC!

 

Yeah it’s what I first thought as well and still thinking.

I’ll stand by my gut that says we tried like hell to trade up for Scoot.  

[hootie249 293]

I just want to remind the forum i wanted either Walker/Hendricks and Wallace with number 11. OKC moving up to get Wallace even when they seem to have no need for him makes me sick to my stomach. Presti just toys with the Magic. Time will tell. 

 

[Jon 30]

4 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

How, if you don't mind me asking? Might be useful for scouting in the future. 

YouTube. I use that more than highlights because you can see the situation before the result. For instance yeah x player had two TO’s but in these clips you can see how those TO’s occurred. Was it because he read the play wrong, did the receiving player have butter fingers, or was it simply a bad pass?

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

27 minutes ago, Jon said:

YouTube. I use that more than highlights because you can see the situation before the result. For instance yeah x player had two TO’s but in these clips you can see how those TO’s occurred. Was it because he read the play wrong, did the receiving player have butter fingers, or was it simply a bad pass?

Right so you just watch the highlights that also include missed shots and turnovers? 

Sorry dude but those aren't "full games". 

[Jon 30]

9 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

Right so you just watch the highlights that also include missed shots and turnovers? 

Sorry dude but those aren't "full games". 

No I watch games that pinpoint the player offensively and defensively throughout the entire game. Some people don’t need a **** ton of data to make a call.

Look I’m not interested into getting a pissing match about something that brings little value to me. Been around long enough to know what I know. If I’m wrong I’m wrong. It’s a message board full of opinions and predictions and speculations. 

[ball junkie 277]

Jimmer …scroll to the 9:25 mark …dude always gets a crazy amount of views