2022 NBA Draft Thread

[ball junkie 277]

6 minutes ago, J Roc Baby said:

Lol goddamn man that's ruthless. Sad to think he'd do that to Orlando at 5 too

Haha probably right J Roc …but he wants to go 1 and has said so …time will tell 

[CTMagicUK 1,480]

1 hour ago, TreyMachine said:

OKC's front office is insanely smart. I wouldn't put it past them. But this is entirely a game of smoke and mirrors. Unfortunately, I think the national consensus is that we'll pick Smith and there's very little "smoke and mirrors" to our alleged plan. I'm 95% sure we'll stay at 1 and get "our guy." No Webber / Penny deal this time around. 

The thing is it's impossible to know with our front office because they never leak anything. All of these reports are other teams assuming what we're going to do. It doesn't benefit us to correct the reports if they're wrong nor to confirm them if they're correct. 

It's quite likely that Jabari is our guy. But he also might not be.

[ball junkie 277]

Ok so Magic fans …was thinking about the mistakes of the Hennigan GM time …so as to not repeat it …here’s what I found :

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19149104/orlando-magic-fire-general-manager-rob-hennigan

Inside this article was an insider article talking about the Magic future …about a month or 2 after this article the Magic hired Weltham …Weltham do have a good track record …but both articles talk about the Magic still searching for that star …basically is the difference between being a  championship contender or a team that is a perennial mid to lower playoff team at its max …when the Magic have to been to the Finals we have had stars on our team 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19149757/how-bright-future-orlando-magic-kevin-pelton

As everybody knows this draft is like so important …like I can’t describe how important if we want to ever contend again .

If everyone thinks Jabari Smith has STAR potential then we are good …I am not in that camp …I like the comps I’ve been seeing lately such as Ray Allen and a taller Clay Thompson …

If we don’t nail our star player in this draft …well,  you get the picture .

Yes, Sharpe has bust potential …but almost every writer agrees about his star potential and highest upside in the draft ….WE NEED A STAR MORE THAN EVER RIGHT NOW ….I say swing for the fences …at least we tried 

Your call Weltham …

PS…TreyMachine …the year we took Webber and traded him for Hardaway nobody …and I mean nobody saw that coming …came out of nowhere …every national media site had us pegged for Webber …but what happened was Penny came in for his workout the week of the draft and blew Magic brass drawers off with his talent ..I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure Penny said he wanted to go one …Magic fans all wanted Webber cause he was the popular pick whom everyone was familiar with on TV

[A Better DJ & Photographer 457]

If there was anyway remotely possible to end up with Jabari and Sharp... I'd give up JI and some picks and take back a contract to make that happen!

[CTMagicUK 1,480]

 

 

[jmmagicfan 302]

3 hours ago, TreyMachine said:

OKC's front office is insanely smart. I wouldn't put it past them. But this is entirely a game of smoke and mirrors. Unfortunately, I think the national consensus is that we'll pick Smith and there's very little "smoke and mirrors" to our alleged plan. I'm 95% sure we'll stay at 1 and get "our guy." No Webber / Penny deal this time around. 

I think it is a lot more difficult these days to pull off that type of Webber/Penny deal. Back at that time, there really wasn't the type of access to tape of Hardaway, even though he played a season at Memphis. Memphis didn't have much of a national profile team at that time, and there wasn't the internet availability that there is now of Sharpe's high school, AAU, and other team real game experience. We talk about Sharpe being an "unknown" quantity because of not playing college ball, but truth is there's much more researchable video of him available than there was of Dwight when he came out of high school, or of Penny out of Memphis. Pulling off a "we'll take player x at #1, you take our guy at #2-4, and we will then do the trade" becomes much more difficult, especially since there isn't a consensus #1 this year. Webber was #1 on just about everyone's board, and Hardaway was actually a surprise pick at #3, as few teams had him ranked that high. 

Personally, I think we need to worry less about obtaining additional assets, and just make sure we get our guy at #1. We can all argue back and forth about who "our guy" should be - Holmgren, Smith, Banchero, Sharpe, Ivey, and I've even seen a couple of projections for Griffin or Murray. Just the fact that there are 3-5 guys getting national media coverage as potential #1 picks makes it less likely to me that we could trade down, get additional assets and still get our guy. It seems like this year everyone's board looks a lot different. You could potentially have almost every team in the league with a different 1-5 ranking of players. It might be the least consensus we've had since Cleveland ended up taking Anthony Bennett (oops!)

[Wilbur 48]

1 minute ago, A Better DJ & Photographer said:

If there was anyway remotely possible to end up with Jabari and Sharp... I'd give up JI and some picks and take back a contract to make that happen!

Agreed.  But I think given JI has been out for 2 years, you are probably looking at having to give up Wendell Carter, Jr. (plus other assets).  

Weltman on Carter: "This is a guy, who everything that he does is about winning – on the court, off the court. Tremendous young guy. Just turned 23. His future is entirely in front of him and all that he does is lift his teammates up, on the court (and) off the court.”  That was after having said Carter established himself as a top 10 center in the NBA 

There is a pretty good argument to be made that pairing 23 year old Carter with Sabonis and Fox is a better path for the Kings than taking yet another lottery ticket at 4.  I think the better question is whether it is better for the Magic.  I guess Weltman is in the best position to determine if JI, Mo and/or Bol make Carter a sell high candidate.  Even if Weltman and the Kings were willing to pull the trigger, if Sharpe has impressed the Magic so much they'd be willing to deal Carter +, you'd have to worry about Houston at 3 deciding to do a deal with Detroit at 5.  Sharpe looks like a really great fit next to Cade Cunningham.  Sharpe refusing media appearance in Detroit?  So what?  If he refuses to work out, that's a story.  Houston will be watching Ivey.  If Ivey and Sharpe both find their way into the top 5, Houston lucks into a big from the "Big 3" plus additional assets.   

I just don't see Sharpe in Orlando unless it involves the #1 pick in some fashion.

 

[A Better DJ & Photographer 457]

Yeah, and I would hate to give up WCJ. If we can add some decent shooters for him to play with I have a feeling he is only going to get better and better.
JI, our 2 2nds, next year's unprotected pick, and taking back a contract to match JIs could move the needle?

[Wilbur 48]

15 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said:

I think it is a lot more difficult these days to pull off that type of Webber/Penny deal. Back at that time, there really wasn't the type of access to tape of Hardaway, even though he played a season at Memphis. Memphis didn't have much of a national profile team at that time, and there wasn't the internet availability that there is now of Sharpe's high school, AAU, and other team real game experience. We talk about Sharpe being an "unknown" quantity because of not playing college ball, but truth is there's much more researchable video of him available than there was of Dwight when he came out of high school, or of Penny out of Memphis. Pulling off a "we'll take player x at #1, you take our guy at #2-4, and we will then do the trade" becomes much more difficult, especially since there isn't a consensus #1 this year. Webber was #1 on just about everyone's board, and Hardaway was actually a surprise pick at #3, as few teams had him ranked that high. 

Personally, I think we need to worry less about obtaining additional assets, and just make sure we get our guy at #1. We can all argue back and forth about who "our guy" should be - Holmgren, Smith, Banchero, Sharpe, Ivey, and I've even seen a couple of projections for Griffin or Murray. Just the fact that there are 3-5 guys getting national media coverage as potential #1 picks makes it less likely to me that we could trade down, get additional assets and still get our guy. It seems like this year everyone's board looks a lot different. You could potentially have almost every team in the league with a different 1-5 ranking of players. It might be the least consensus we've had since Cleveland ended up taking Anthony Bennett (oops!)

I think the fact there is no consensus actually makes it more likely you could see a trade at #1.  For example, Weltman may decide he has absolutely no real preference between 3 players.  Houston decides it has to have Holmgren/Smith to team with Green and Wood.  Weltman knows he gets one of his guys at 3.  Why not pick up an asset?  When you have only one guy is when you need to pick #1.  How many times during the previous era did we hear about the guy we had locked in on only to see them go a pick or two before the Magic drafted.

On Penny:  “I thought it was the greatest trade in history,” said Danny Ainge. “I thought Penny Hardaway was the best player coming out of college that year. Straight up, I thought it was a pretty good trade, and still do. And three No. 1 picks? C’mon.”  Two of the three picks were dealt by the Magic so we typically don't think about how lopsided the trade became because the Magic didn't maximize the value.  The three actual picks: Todd Fuller (#11 in 96), Vince Carter (#5 in 98) & Mike Miller (#5 in 00).  It was simply a ridiculous trade for a guy that was completely dominate at the college level.  A PG with 1.3 blocks per game?  Seriously.

[jmmagicfan 302]

7 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I think the fact there is no consensus actually makes it more likely you could see a trade at #1.  For example, Weltman may decide he has absolutely no real preference between 3 players.  Houston decides it has to have Holmgren/Smith to team with Green and Wood.  Weltman knows he gets one of his guys at 3.  Why not pick up an asset?  When you have only one guy is when you need to pick #1.  How many times during the previous era did we hear about the guy we had locked in on only to see them go a pick or two before the Magic drafted.

I would argue that this only happens if the Magic fall in love with Ivey, Sharpe, Griffin, or Murray; and if Houston/Sacramento/Detroit absolutely must have Holmgren/Smith/Banchero. At the end of the day, you have to be happy with who you choose #1, so that if the deal falls through because your guy isn't there at the later pick, you haven't screwed yourself putting the eggs into that basket. For example, Sacramento decides they "must have" Holmgren, and you really want Sharpe, but Houston pulls a stunner and picks Sharpe; now what?!? If you were planning on keeping the pick, would you have chosen Holmgren? I think trading the #1 pick has to take three things:

1) you have to be almost 100% sure that your top guy will still be there for the lower pick, and 

2) you have to make sure that the guy you pick #1 is no lower than #2 on your own board.

3) you have to have some mighty big balls; because if your guy is gone before that lower pick, you are kicking yourself for taking the chance on losing your top pick by being greedy. 

I think both the first two items are easier/more likely when there is a general consensus of who the top one or two picks will be. I think Weltman/Hammond will have a very definite preference, as they are a) looking for a star and b) trying to build a team/winning culture around that star.

[jmmagicfan 302]

In point of fact, the ONLY time that the #1 pick has been traded for just other picks, and not included as part of a trade for established player(s) and other picks was the Webber/Hardaway trade. It's just that rare. 

[CTMagicUK 1,480]

1 minute ago, jmmagicfan said:

In point of fact, the ONLY time that the #1 pick has been traded for just other picks, and not included as part of a trade for established player(s) and other picks was the Webber/Hardaway trade. It's just that rare. 

Philly/Boston 2017.