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Bauncey Chillups

2018 NBA Draft Thread

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Murphy13    151

So much crazy on the previous page.  

 

On a separate note, EP's PNR stats are more a testament to how terrible our post play is on defense...without providing source material to back up the claim, all it is is someone stating their opinion on twitter anyway.

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?4thewin    1,481
6 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

So much crazy on the previous page.  

 

On a separate note, EP's PNR stats are more a testament to how terrible our post play is on defense...without providing source material to back up the claim, all it is is someone stating their opinion on twitter anyway.

He provides the link to the guys Twitter who compiles the data off synergy.  

If it was related to our bigs there would be some correlation with the other guards on the team.  There's no correlation, the rest of them are average.  

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Murphy13    151
17 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

He provides the link to the guys Twitter who compiles the data off synergy.  

If it was related to our bigs there would be some correlation with the other guards on the team.  There's no correlation, the rest of them are average.  

I followed the link, if you're talking about the google doc every category (PNR included) is based purely on point per possession (+/-) difference which is a team metric.  That is far from scientific.  It also is locked for every player but Jarrett Allen.   The credibility of the original statement smells, to say the least.  

Edit: I figured out the dropdown menu, so I can look at other players.  I'm digesting what I'm reading but it seems overly simplified to me so far.  All our players except Isaac are terrible apparently.  

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?4thewin    1,481
36 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

I followed the link, if you're talking about the google doc every category (PNR included) is based purely on point per possession (+/-) difference which is a team metric.  That is far from scientific.  It also is locked for every player but Jarrett Allen.   The credibility of the original statement smells, to say the least.  

Its easier to navigate on a computer.  You click on the player defense tab. Then that gives you the information.  

PnR ball handler is the field we're discussing. That number is calculated where 0 is average.  Basically if the average expected value of a pick and role is whatever, let's say 1 point.  Then if you defend 100 pick and rolls you're expected to give up 100 points.  If a player gives up 100 points that's represented as 0 in that field.  

Payton's number is +47.5 which means players have scored 47.5 more points than expected on pick and rolls this year, worst in the league.  

Simmons is +0.7

Fournier is +6.1

Mario is +0.2

Mack is +0.3

Augustin is -0.5 (- means above average)

Again, Payton is +47.5. Worst in the league by a large margin.  

Payton is worse at defending p&rs relative to their expected value than anyone is at defending any other play in basketball with the exception of Dirk and dragic as help defenders in  the pick and roll.  

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27 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

Its easier to navigate on a computer.  You click on the player defense tab. Then that gives you the information.  

PnR ball handler is the field we're discussing. That number is calculated where 0 is average.  Basically if the average expected value of a pick and role is whatever, let's say 1 point.  Then if you defend 100 pick and rolls you're expected to give up 100 points.  If a player gives up 100 points that's represented as 0 in that field.  

Payton's number is +47.5 which means players have scored 47.5 more points than expected on pick and rolls this year, worst in the league.  

Simmons is +0.7

Fournier is +6.1

Mario is +0.2

Mack is +0.3

Augustin is -0.5 (- means above average)

Again, Payton is +47.5. Worst in the league by a large margin.  

Payton is worse at defending p&rs relative to their expected value than anyone is at defending any other play in basketball with the exception of Dirk and dragic as help defenders in  the pick and roll.  

Wow!!  Just WOW!!!

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Magicfan1987    105
28 minutes ago, fan for too long 2 said:

Wow!!  Just WOW!!!

so you're saying If I'm playing 2 on 1 with my imaginary friend and Elfrid, chances are either myself or my friend will score?? 

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?4thewin    1,481
9 minutes ago, Magicfan1987 said:

so you're saying If I'm playing 2 on 1 with my imaginary friend and Elfrid, chances are either myself or my friend will score?? 

Only if you're in a pick and roll. He's fine defending spot up shooters, post ups, isolations. He's below average defending guys in hand offs and running off screens but a normal below average, nothing really that alarming. 

But pick and roll is horrific.  And its about 43% of the plays he's defending.  

Its also important to point out that these proprietary private facing statistics still use results based data.  Meaning they measure when something happens but defense isn't always about something happening. A good defender defers action and these statistics don't measure situations where a guy passes out of the play (with the exception of assists). 

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random    8
10 hours ago, Payton4thewin said:

Only if you're in a pick and roll. He's fine defending spot up shooters, post ups, isolations. He's below average defending guys in hand offs and running off screens but a normal below average, nothing really that alarming. 

But pick and roll is horrific.  And its about 43% of the plays he's defending.  

Its also important to point out that these proprietary private facing statistics still use results based data.  Meaning they measure when something happens but defense isn't always about something happening. A good defender defers action and these statistics don't measure situations where a guy passes out of the play (with the exception of assists). 

 

This must be something mental, like he doesnt believe in our interior defense in pick and roll situation, and he just gives up when he sees a pick and roll. Like he has no trust in whoever is defending pick and roll with him.

Probably didnt do him any favors that he played most minutes with Vuc at the center. He probably picked up some terrible habits because of it.

I wouldnt be surprised if he would become a good (ok, passable) PNR defender on another team, or with some significant roster changes here.

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?4thewin    1,481
9 minutes ago, random said:

 

This must be something mental, like he doesnt believe in our interior defense in pick and roll situation, and he just gives up when he sees a pick and roll. Like he has no trust in whoever is defending pick and roll with him.

Probably didnt do him any favors that he played most minutes with Vuc at the center. He probably picked up some terrible habits because of it.

I wouldnt be surprised if he would become a good (ok, passable) PNR defender on another team, or with some significant roster changes here.

The eye test says he just can't figure out how to get through a screen

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28 minutes ago, Payton4thewin said:

The eye test says he just can't figure out how to get through a screen

You don't think that is teachable. Those concepts are really not that difficult. Is he a moron? Is the  question then. Lol

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Magicman28    224
11 minutes ago, fan for too long 2 said:

You don't think that is teachable. Those concepts are really not that difficult. Is he a moron? Is the  question then. Lol

Yeah...In college. He's been a starting PG long enough.

Look, defense can be taught but a lot of it is just giving a damn. There's no reason why he can't defend better. 

Have you ever worked with people who are the first to see something which needed to be done and just ignore it so someone else had to do it? That's Elfrid in PNR's.

He just doesn't give enough of a damn to defend them better.

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?4thewin    1,481

So back to draft stuff.  

Ryen Russillo says most of the gms and front office guys he talks to have Trae Young 7th because of limitations in his game.  

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