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?4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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Justin Jaudon    109
1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

 

How does nurkic, hood, wcs, or oubre make us better?

I mean Fournier is better than or equal to hood. Wcs hasnt been good.  Nurkic is fine but wouldn't really fit any better than the guys we have now.  And Gary Harris doesn't really make sense with oladipo.  

Turner would be nice though.  But is turner really changing the fortunes of this franchise? 

I think Mario and oubre are about even now 

You're missing the point. Oladipo makes us better. Look at Indiana's roster. It's not really any better than ours, but they're a playoff team because he is a beast for them. Nurkic, hood, WCS, Oubre make us better by being better assets than Elfrid Payton or Mario Hezonja (I am not willing to say Hezonja is as good as Oubre yet, because Oubre has done it a bit longer; Hezonja is fully welcome to prove me wrong). Nurkic is a much better defensive player than Vucevic (he plays harder is really the only difference, but that is how defense is). They are probably a wash overall (Vuc is much better offensively), but, as a center, defense is more important, which means Nurkic is the better asset (because we could also just keep him for fairly cheap as a starter without killing our defense like Vuc does). Hood is better than Elfrid, clearly. He's willing to come off the bench, good scorer, average defender. He would make it super easy to get rid of Fournier, and apparently he's worth Jae Crowder, which is a good if different bench piece. WCS has been solid this year. He's definitely worth more right now than Mario. Gary Harris would work just fine as Oladipo's excellent backup, 6th man. Probably we'd have to trade him rather than pay him, but think what we could get for him. Turner would indeed be nice. For once, I would have won that draft, because I loved Turner and wanted us to pick him (normally I'm not good with draft projections). I think he's the starting center on a playoff team, and is a terrific asset.

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ML6    165

So I was listening to David Griffin’s XM show on my ride from Windermere to Gainesville and hour ago, and it’s no wonder why teams makes terrible deals sometimes. Maybe they’re just as bad at scouting other teams’ players as we are as fans. Griffin liked the Suns picking up Payton because they grabbed “an incredible defender”. 

That’s a former championship GM. Describing a player in the exact opposite way of the truth. 

I called in to comment and held for 45 minutes before hanging up when they went to their 2nd ‘special guest’ without taking any phone calls. 

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Murphy13    140
1 hour ago, Magicman28 said:

Some keep saying tanking or shooting for a top 3 pick doesn't work when this simple graph says otherwise

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-is-winning-the-nba-draft-lottery-really-worth/

I'll take 4 year old data for the win, Alex.

All that says is that high draft picks end up being better players and win more games on average than less high draft picks, but it has little bearing on the argument you present as it states at the end of the article, while the high draft picks do well, they end up doing well for their next team-not the team that drafted them.  

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Murphy13    140
16 minutes ago, ML6 said:

So I was listening to David Griffin’s XM show on my ride from Windermere to Gainesville and hour ago, and it’s no wonder why teams makes terrible deals sometimes. Maybe they’re just as bad at scouting other teams’ players as we are as fans. Griffin liked the Suns picking up Payton because they grabbed “an incredible defender”. 

That’s a former championship GM. Describing a player in the exact opposite way of the truth. 

I called in to comment and held for 45 minutes before hanging up when they went to their 2nd ‘special guest’ without taking any phone calls. 

The problem you face is that your belief on what constitutes what's good or not is heavier into bias than objectivity.  Someone posts videos of all the times player X has been blown by and you believe hes like that all the time but it's forgotten that player X has plenty of shutdown moments as well because you focus on what you're shown by people who care more about proving their point than being objective.  It's okay to not agree with some talking head or some poster on you favorite forum, that doesn't mean that something can't be taken from their position as the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.  Balance is the key and the balanced opinion on the guy you speak of is that he has everything it takes to be a very good defender and is currently not as bad as some think.  

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Murphy13    140

It's been 21 years since the team who picked #1 has won a championship.  I guess they don't count Lebron because he left Cleveland and went back?

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Magicman28    220
20 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

I'll take 4 year old data for the win, Alex.

All that says is that high draft picks end up being better players and win more games on average than less high draft picks, but it has little bearing on the argument you present as it states at the end of the article, while the high draft picks do well, they end up doing well for their next team-not the team that drafted them.  

Sooo don't be dumb and trade your star player? 

Dipo is a prime example. Top 3...All star...Shouldn't of traded him...You don't have a strong counter argument.

High picks=better players=more wins>lower end picks.

 

 

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?4thewin    1,340
12 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

The problem you face is that your belief on what constitutes what's good or not is heavier into bias than objectivity.  Someone posts videos of all the times player X has been blown by and you believe hes like that all the time but it's forgotten that player X has plenty of shutdown moments as well because you focus on what you're shown by people who care more about proving their point than being objective.  It's okay to not agree with some talking head or some poster on you favorite forum, that doesn't mean that something can't be taken from their position as the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.  Balance is the key and the balanced opinion on the guy you speak of is that he has everything it takes to be a very good defender and is currently not as bad as some think.  

I mean every measurable statistic and gambling software and video and opponent performance vs their average says one thing but you just keep believing the opposite.  

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Murphy13    140
Just now, ?4thewin said:

I mean every measurable statistic and gambling software and video and opponent performance vs their average says one thing but you just keep believing the opposite.  

It's not that I believe the opposite, It just seems opposite because you (and others) are so far down one path that anyone that has a different opinion to you seems like the opposite.  You've left no room for balance.  I'm more in the 'why give up on promising 23 y/o point guard without having a backup plan when we aren't close to winning anyway' boat.  

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Murphy13    140
14 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Sooo don't be dumb and trade your star player? 

Dipo is a prime example. Top 3...All star...Shouldn't of traded him...You don't have a strong counter argument.

High picks=better players=more wins>lower end picks.

 

 

I agree not to trade star players, my history is evidence of that.  My counter is that your argument wasn't bolstered in the least bit by the link you provided and was contradictory at the end.  That is all.  That' doesn't mean I disagree with your opinion.  

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