2017 Official Offseason Thread

[magicblue 315]

What if EP improves next season similar to the he has over the past 3 years? That would be more tangible growth than most any player in the league on average, including anyone else on our team.

 

What if? Idk

[Murphy13 185]

oh stop we criticized him a ton when it was warranted. when his offense dipped when he was worried too much about dancing and showing off his ball handling that went nowhere. the first 26 games when we were like "ok, whats the plan here". then he hit that 33 point game against the clippers. then a handful of unremarkable games. then the 30 point game against Memphis. two unremarkable games. 22 point game against the knicks. good game against Atlanta, and a 10 game stretch where he put up 16 ppg on 51/39/69 shooting. Then he started to wear down. then he got hurt. then he looked like a scrub in the dunk contest.

 

then he came back post all star and had a couple bad games. then he went on a 23 game tear.

 

He averaged 16 and 5 in March. If that's a tear to you then great. I call that replaceable talent in free agency. The April games were absolutely meaningless for everyone on our team. I think he's been good enough in stretches to where he hasn't earned criticism on a large scale. That said I think his ceiling has come crashing down the last 18 months. His upside is most likely solid role player with a year or maybe two of fringe all-star potential (depending on team success). He still has a way to go to reach that upside. He plays a position that has a lot of good players and hasn't shown to be capable of playing multiple positions. I really thought he was going to be more versatile.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

@EricPincus: Shelvin Mack's deal is $6 mil flat per year, only $1 mil guaranteed for 18/19 @BBallInsiders w/Orlando Magic

 

 

that's a good deal

[A Better DJ & Photographer 457]

I just hope when it's time to consider extending these guys they do it based on performance, not potential. I am about out of patience with potential right now and want to see us with guys that are able to play, not ones that might be good in a few years.

[Murphy13 185]

uhh, what?

 

1. he averaged 12 ppg his freshman season.

 

2. when he went back and played against "college" competition following his rookie year in summer league he averaged 22 and 12 and was unguardable.

 

I misrepresented his potential scoring in favor of the point that still stands. There is no way he would score 22 in the college game unless his team disregarded how college teams played and instead spaced out like they do in the pros and do more isos. His team would be terrible, but sure he COULD score more points.

[Magicman28 295]

that's a good deal

 

Was going to say the same thing.

[Magicman28 295]

He averaged 16 and 5 in March. If that's a tear to you then great. I call that replaceable talent in free agency. The April games were absolutely meaningless for everyone on our team. I think he's been good enough in stretches to where he hasn't earned criticism on a large scale. That said I think his ceiling has come crashing down the last 18 months. His upside is most likely solid role player with a year or maybe two of fringe all-star potential (depending on team success). He still has a way to go to reach that upside. He plays a position that has a lot of good players and hasn't shown to be capable of playing multiple positions. I really thought he was going to be more versatile.

 

 

Sometimes it's more about role not just position.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I misrepresented his potential scoring in favor of the point that still stands. There is no way he would score 22 in the college game unless his team disregarded how college teams played and instead spaced out like they do in the pros and do more isos. His team would be terrible, but sure he COULD score more points.

 

yeah, sure, not 22. but a **** ton more than 10.

[Murphy13 185]

What if? Idk

 

The point of the question was to determine if that would be a 'make or break' outcome for him. It's odd to me that a point guard would show definitive growth year over year for 3 years and be relegated to make or break status in year four. It would seem to set up the premise that there are unrealistic expectations for the development of a point guard.

[HeHateMe 697]

Just because you value him less than most doesn't mean anyone is giving him a pass, he has obvious offensive limitations. His athleticism and defensive versatility just lends me to believe he'll be an average starter at least

 

I wouldn't say I value him less. For our team to ever have any hope in the near future he needs to be much better, so I realize and value his worth in that regard. I've just never bought into the hype with him.

[Murphy13 185]

Sometimes it's more about role not just position.

 

Sure. Though versatility shows through whether you define it by roles or position. So far how versatile of a role has he (effectively) played? I totally agree that with him in particular I am less worried about specific numbers and more worried about how he fits in. With his athleticism it shouldn't be impossible for him to carve out a legit role.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

The point of the question was to determine if that would be a 'make or break' outcome for him. It's odd to me that a point guard would show definitive growth year over year for 3 years and be relegated to make or break status in year four. It would seem to set up the premise that there are unrealistic expectations for the development of a point guard.

 

depends on where that improvement comes from. He could improve his 2pt%, become a little more aggressive more often, maybe get 11 twos per game instead of 9. bump up his ppg to 14 and maybe his assists up to 7.2 and we could be sitting here next year trying to figure out what the ***** we're supposed to do with him.

 

If he has a similar stat line to last year but he hits more open threes forcing the defense to at least defend him out there and the new defensive scheme helps him become a decent defender then he's in a great position.

 

Payton's future viability hinges more on getting better at at least one of the things he's bad at. its somewhat independent of what he does in the area's he's already good at.