Magic at Wizards

[Ibn Battuta 127]

where's your credibility? 35 wins isn't winning. winning 16 of your final 49 games isn't winning. Losing by 18 to Phoenix at home isn't winning. Losing by 37 to Portland isn't winning. If that's the benchmark for you no wonder you're saying the things you're saying. you have no perspective.

 

we were 20-12 before the new year, when the wheels suddenly fell off (and we all know why they did). That's nice you can cherry pick random losses, I can do that too. That 32 point loss to the Mavs a few weeks ago? the 30 point losses to the Celtics and the Raptors? How about us having the one of the worst point differentials in the league this season? If I cared enough I'd look what it was last season but obviously it's not nearly as bad. 35 wins may not be "winning" but it certainly is better than any season in the last 5 years, and the closest we've had to a respectable team in that time period.

 

It seems to me like anyone who doesn't agree with you is f***ing stupid. because that's really all you got at this point.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

we were 20-12 before the new year, when the wheels suddenly fell off (and we all know why they did). That's nice you can cherry pick random losses, I can do that too. That 32 point loss to the Mavs a few weeks ago? the 30 point losses to the Celtics and the Raptors? How about us having the one of the worst point differentials in the league this season? If I cared enough I'd look what it was last season but obviously it's not nearly as bad. 35 wins may not be "winning" but it certainly is better than any season in the last 5 years, and the closest we've had to a respectable team in that time period.

 

It seems to like anyone who doesn't agree with you is f***ing stupid. because that's really all you got at this point.

 

 

I cant wait to sit with my grandchildren and talk about how we dealt with the loss of beloved coach scott skiles and his 35 wins. It was really difficult to go from that level of success to Vogel and his 29.5 wins this season. The fans took it really hard because you generally grow complacent when you reach the great heights of 35 wins.

 

ITS A VERITABLE *****ING TRAGEDY. I'm sure great lessons of humility will be learned.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I cant wait until Skiles officially stops coaching and opens his Skiles' 35 Grill across from the arena.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

He QUIT! You rather keep a coach who didn't want to be kept. He gave zero *****s about the team and the fans. He collected his money and hauled ass and you want to talk about message sending?

 

The hell is wrong with you?

 

He quit because of Payton right? That's the story we've been sold. I thought we all agreed Payton regularly half asses it? Skiles probably called him out on it but when push came to shove the GM subverted his authority and the tone he was trying to set (one of working your ass off). It makes sense too when you see Vogel softly pushing for Payton to come off the bench, as if it's no big deal. "We just want a different look for a starting lineup with Payton coming off the bench." The team is just cozying up Payton's feelings because they are stubborn to admit otherwise, that he's really not the cornerstone Rob thought he was drafting.

[JJZFL 620]

The odds of hitting increase the higher we pick simply because there's more talented options on the table that have not already been selected by another team. I'm not really sure how or why anyone would argue that? If it sounds overly simplistic, it's probably because its a fairly simple concept. It's certainly not any more wrong than desiring to win meaningless games now and picking later in the draft, thus having less talented options on the table, but you are obviously dug in here so it's probably not worth discussing any further.

 

 

But your case is ignoring context.

 

The NBA isn't disorganized. It's structured with designed ways to achieve success. Draft is one of them and with the new CBA, it's become even more important.

 

It's not overly simplistic. It's simplistic because the specifics of this system make it so.

 

You guys keep repeating the same stuff over and over again as if endless repetition makes it more convincing. Let's look at this one more time. What do you have to do to tank successfully? You have to put the worst team possible on the floor for however long is necessary to hopefully get a lucky draft pick or two. But by doing that, you're digging such a deep hole for yourself with said lousy team that you're also decreasing the chances that your lucky draft pick or two will be able to get you very far (again unless you get a LeBron and does it make sense to count on that??).

 

The reasoning above isn't difficult to follow. I'm not even mentioning the other corrosive effects of tanking on the players you're supposedly trying to develop. Or on your chances of signing free agents. Or many other factors that are also negatively affected by this strategy. That's why your endlessly repeated " more losses, more ping pong balls", even though it's true in isolation, misses the point.

 

You may disagree with this argument but please don't just restate the obvious fact that the worse your record, the more ping pong balls you get. Everyone knows that. The real question is how you get to a good team, and there is more than one strategy for that.

[Magicman28 295]

He quit because of Payton right? That's the story we've been sold. I thought we all agreed Payton regularly half asses it? Skiles probably called him out on it but when push came to shove the GM subverted his authority and the tone he was trying to set (one of working your ass off). It makes sense too when you see Vogel softly pushing for Payton to come off the bench, as if it's no big deal. "We just want a different look for a starting lineup with Payton coming off the bench." The team is just cozying up Payton's feelings because they are stubborn to admit otherwise, that he's really not the cornerstone Rob thought he was drafting.

 

 

Did he? I dunno. Don't care if it was. He signed on to coach a young undeveloped team with the objective to develop them and he clearly had no intentions of doing that despite him saying that's exactly why he was there.

 

He literally threw the biggest *****ing tantrum a quarter into the season. Got his boys in a lopsided trade. Threw another tantrum after that and high tailed it with money in the bank.

 

Aaannd you want to talk about a "culture".

 

Btw, Henny was such a dictator of a GM he didn't even ask for a first rounder in the Tobias trade to get Skiles his boys.

[Optimist Prime 197]

So I guess the jury is still out on Fran Vasquez...

 

I mean, as a player in the NBA, sure. He's obviously not coming over here. If he did for whatever reason, he would be a rookie, but that's not at all my point.

 

Embiid was selected with an injury that was known to keep him out, and Philly knew they were going to hold him out as long as possible for the tank. Fran staying in Europe is a different situation. And him not coming over means that yes, it was a bad pick, but that doesn't have anything to do with my point about Embiid.

 

Missing on Embiid was what I've been referring to this whole time. As soon as Embiid started playing, he had a positive impact on the team. He was a known quantity and we were one pick away from potentially having him. With a worse record, the Magic could conceivably have selected him.

[Magicman28 295]

You guys keep repeating the same stuff over and over again as if endless repetition makes it more convincing. Let's look at this one more time. What do you have to do to tank successfully? You have to put the worst team possible on the floor for however long is necessary to hopefully get a lucky draft pick or two. But by doing that, you're digging such a deep hole for yourself with said lousy team that you're also decreasing the chances that your lucky draft pick or two will be able to get you very far (again unless you get a LeBron and does it make sense to count on that??).

 

The reasoning above isn't difficult to follow. I'm not even mentioning the other corrosive effects of tanking on the players you're supposedly trying to develop. Or on your chances of signing free agents. Or many other factors that are also negatively affected by this strategy. That's why your endlessly repeated " more losses, more ping pong balls", even though it's true in isolation, misses the point.

 

You may disagree with this argument but please don't just restate the obvious fact that the worse your record, the more ping pong balls you get. Everyone knows that. The real question is how you get to a good team, and there is more than one strategy for that.

 

 

**** didn't need a book.

 

 

FA's flock to the talent. Teams trade for talent. Got no talent? You draft em.

 

Answer me this? Give me a roster where we were a strong, consistent, legit contending team, and FA's were wanting to sign, where that team did not have a player drafted high on that roster.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

I cant wait to sit with my grandchildren and talk about how we dealt with the loss of beloved coach scott skiles and his 35 wins. It was really difficult to go from that level of success to Vogel and his 29.5 wins this season. The fans took it really hard because you generally grow complacent when you reach the great heights of 35 wins.

 

ITS A VERITABLE *****ING TRAGEDY. I'm sure great lessons of humility will be learned.

 

You can spin it however you want, but the fact is we were making noticeable improvements under Skiles until the whole Payton thing blew up. Vogel has a better team this year and probably won't crack 30 wins. If only the GM didnt treat Payton like his child might we actually be in a better situation going forward.

[Magicman28 295]

I cant wait until Skiles officially stops coaching and opens his Skiles' 35 Grill across from the arena.

 

 

Lmao

 

It was in the works but he's got all these coaching offers at the moment. Mulling over which one he's going to sign and quit. Once he gets more money, he'll just build an small restaurant in Costa Rica.

[Odin 137]

You guys keep repeating the same stuff over and over again as if endless repetition makes it more convincing. Let's look at this one more time. What do you have to do to tank successfully? You have to put the worst team possible on the floor for however long is necessary to hopefully get a lucky draft pick or two. But by doing that, you're digging such a deep hole for yourself with said lousy team that you're also decreasing the chances that your lucky draft pick or two will be able to get you very far (again unless you get a LeBron and does it make sense to count on that??).

 

The reasoning above isn't difficult to follow. I'm not even mentioning the other corrosive effects of tanking on the players you're supposedly trying to develop. Or on your chances of signing free agents. Or many other factors that are also negatively affected by this strategy. That's why your endlessly repeated " more losses, more ping pong balls", even though it's true in isolation, misses the point.

 

You may disagree with this argument but please don't just restate the obvious fact that the worse your record, the more ping pong balls you get. Everyone knows that. The real question is how you get to a good team, and there is more than one strategy for that.

 

Almost every team has been bad at some point. Almost every team has been a top 5 worst team at some point as well. I really think you overrate these "corrosive" effects.

 

To get the best players, unfortunately you have to be bad. To win, you have to have the best players. The only other ways you can get the best players is either through a trade or through free agency- and if you want them to stay, you generally need, again, other good players.

 

Generally, teams are not willing to trade away their stars, and, generally, stars are not willing to go to mediocre teams unless the mediocre team has a star, which leaves the draft.

[Magicman28 295]

Almost every team has been bad at some point. Almost every team has been a top 5 worst team at some point as well. I really think you overrate these "corrosive" effects.

 

To get the best players, unfortunately you have to be bad. To win, you have to have the best players. The only other ways you can get the best players is either through a trade or through free agency- and if you want them to stay, you generally need, again, other good players.

 

Generally, teams are not willing to trade away their stars, and, generally, stars are not willing to go to mediocre teams unless the mediocre team has a star, which leaves the draft.

 

 

Right and you can have 15 *****ing years of losing and bam, get that player and instant turn around and it doesn't have to necessarily be a LeBron type.