Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 Thinking about it. I wonder if this offense is the cause for our issues. Last year Payton-Oladipo-Fournier-Frye-Vucevic was +13 Payton-Oladipo-Harris-Nicholson-Vucevic was +6 Payton-Oladipo-Fournier-Harris-Frye was +4.5 Payton-Oladipo-Gordon-Nicholson-Vucevic was +1 Payton-Oladipo-Founier-Harris-Vucevic was -0.3 12 of our top 15 most effective lineups were payton-oladipo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 last year, Payton-Oladipo played 1681 minutes together and posted a -3.9 which was above average considering we had only 1 positive two man combination and the average lineup was -6. This year, Payton-Oladipo has played 259 minutes together and is -14.3 I blame the offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNameIsOrlando 310 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 well long term as in day in and day out for the rest of this season. i still think the proper approach is continuing to start payton and pushing through this for the rest of the year and playing watson or shabazz more when payton isn't performing. I'm of the same thinking. Let's find out if this kid is worth a damn so we can keep him or move on. He's terrible right now but its still largely unknown if he is the guy or not. At least wait until the all star break. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 last year, Payton-Oladipo played 1681 minutes together and posted a -3.9 which was above average considering we had only 1 positive two man combination and the average lineup was -6. This year, Payton-Oladipo has played 259 minutes together and is -14.3 I blame the offense. It's what I said in another post...The type of offense Skiles runs is very focused on ball moving around more than anything. With JV, the offense was more about moving players around. A lot more PnR's, cuts, slashes, etc. I love what Skiles has done defensively and I love how he's holding players accountable for a lack of effort but his offense does not play up to their strengths imo. Dipo isn't a catch and shoot player first. It's in his repertoire, but usually when he's on. Same with Payton. He's a guy who needs to have the ball in his hands and move around. Skiles offense can be quite effective and a beautiful thing to watch, WITH the right players. I don't think he has that until everyone is consistently making shots, which none of our young draft picks are strong at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 I'd rather start Payton as well. He is up and down now but he has a very high ceiling as a PG. It's hard for me to blame our offense. The team gets open looks and just can't make the shots. Payton creates a ton of open looks and nothing is going down right now. Our problem for years now is lack of a go to guy. I don't see that changing until we make some trades. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 Wait haven't we already concluded after his rookie year that Dipo playing point for long stretches is a bad idea? Hence the he was out of position his first year sentiment. I'm sure he has improved since then but I'm not sold on putting Dipo at the point is good in the short or long term for anyone involved. Yeah. I hated it but I think with Skiles offense, you gotta change some things plus, I'm sorry, but Payton was absent last night. That's the thing with him. He's so talented but at times, he's not engaged or at least, seems like he's not. He's young so he'll learn but at least with Dipo, you know he's engaged. He just can't hit anything consistently. Maybe by letting him have more ball control (can't believe I'm saying that) maybe he can get going. Imo, Skiles really puts an emphasis on defensive effort. Dipo, despite this crazy slump he's in, is always bringing it on the other side of the ball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 I'd rather start Payton as well. He is up and down now but he has a very high ceiling as a PG. It's hard for me to blame our offense. The team gets open looks and just can't make the shots. Payton creates a ton of open looks and nothing is going down right now. Our problem for years now is lack of a go to guy. I don't see that changing until we make some trades. Yeah I agree. This is why I REALLY want Hezonja to start showing and proving sooner than later. I think in the future he's key. I know we pretty much agree that Porzingis was our number one on our draft board (we can see why) but Hezonja and Gordon really dictate on what our lineup becomes long term. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 I'd rather start Payton as well. He is up and down now but he has a very high ceiling as a PG. It's hard for me to blame our offense. The team gets open looks and just can't make the shots. Payton creates a ton of open looks and nothing is going down right now. Our problem for years now is lack of a go to guy. I don't see that changing until we make some trades. What is the definition of a go-to-guy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 534 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 The offense that Skiles runs does not require a ball dominant point guard. Unless that changes, Payton is going to have a hard time staying engaged offensively. He really needs to take it to the hole with aggression when he has the ball. He looks lost a lot out there when he plays off the ball, which in this offense he is forced to do. It doesn't look like Skiles is willing to play to the strengths of what his players have. It is his way or the highway. Which can be good or bad, depends on the mental toughness of the players and how well they can adjust and succeed. I will be surprised to see Payton still starting, Shabazz more than likely taking his spot. If Oladipo runs the point this team is in trouble. He has very bad court vision. Only if he finds his outside shot does this team have a chance with Vic at point. I believe it is time for Gordon to start. His energy is whats needed to start the game. The rest of the team will feed off of it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catalina Maria 64 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 The offense that Skiles runs does not require a ball dominant point guard. Unless that changes, Payton is going to have a hard time staying engaged offensively. He really needs to take it to the hole with aggression when he has the ball. He looks lost a lot out there when he plays off the ball, which in this offense he is forced to do. It doesn't look like Skiles is willing to play to the strengths of what his players have. It is his way or the highway. Which can be good or bad, depends on the mental toughness of the players and how well they can adjust and succeed. I will be surprised to see Payton still starting, Shabazz more than likely taking his spot. If Oladipo runs the point this team is in trouble. He has very bad court vision. Only if he finds his outside shot does this team have a chance with Vic at point. I believe it is time for Gordon to start. His energy is whats needed to start the game. The rest of the team will feed off of it. Good point here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNameIsOrlando 310 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 What is the definition of a go-to-guy? I'd say Fournier is a go to guy so far this season. He's not a star but def a go to guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted November 24, 2015 What is the definition of a go-to-guy? It's pretty straightforward, but a go to guy is who you give the ball to to win games. A guy who makes shots when you REALLY need a basket. Every team that wins titles has one. They usually always average over 20 ppg. Some past and present: Dirk, Dwayne Wade, LBJ, Paul George, John Wall, Kobe, Durant, Curry Lower tier - Derozan, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Jimmy Butler, Andrew Wiggins,etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
