The Official 2015-2016 Regular Season Thread

[Justin Jaudon 221]

I am officially in for getting rid of everyone on this team who isn't Aaron, Evan, Dipo, and Mario (and with Mario it's just potential, he hasn't really earned that loyalty). Evan and Dipo come to play every night, and they contribute consistently. Aaron is getting there, and his potential is sky high.

 

Vuc is sadly just not going to cut it on D.

 

And Payton needs to be benched immediately. I understand he gets sat down during all these games where he's playing flat and not doing ****. But he keeps his starting job. That needs to change. He comes out like he's coasting way too often against lesser teams, and it gets us killed. If it's me, I start Jennings the rest of the season, see what we really have there. The problem is, I don't know that the higher-ups will let Skiles bench Elfrid. I haven't liked his attitude since he came here, and this year has just been really frustrating watching him play on his own little island.

 

One thing Skiles has done a great job of: he's shown us who the real professionals are on this team. That's what we wanted from him, accountability. Evan gets huge minutes because he plays hard every night. Dipo got benched early in the season, took it like a man, and earned his way back into the SL by playing his ass off every night. Gordon got into the SL by earning it coming in off the bench and playing hard. Elf gets sat down for two-thirds of games because he just doesn't play hard. Vuc gets sat for long stretches because he gives no effort on D. Dedmon stopped getting major minutes because his focus went to **** and he started taking stupid shots and camping out for blocks on D. People can hate on Skiles all they want, but he didn't put this team together, he's just tasked with teaching them how to win. We saw in December that Skiles' system is not outdated. It just relies on guys playing hard. You can call him a bad motivator, but he hasn't been here long enough for that to be clear at all. He's motivated Dipo and Evan, and Aaron as well. Even Vuc plays harder than he did for Vaughn.

 

Rant over... probably

[Justin Jaudon 221]

Sure you can. Especially if they don't perform. Maybe the problem with most nba teams is they rely too much on former nba coaches to fill the position. Maybe the answer is to get someone with a new perspective, some creativity. Sports evolve and the nba game style is changing. 1 year ago everyone thought the Cavs had the finals locked down. But a team with a new philosophy, and the perfect mesh of talent for their system, is practically unbeatable. Sure golden state was a talented team before Kerr took over. But he looked at what he had and made the most of it. Skiles is trying to run half of our roster out of town to bring in his old players. That's not what a good coach does. That's what an old timer who doesn't have the balls to change up his ego issues. Skiles is killing this team with his stubbornness. And henny shot himself in the foot for sticking with Vaughn for too long. Time to hire a candidate who thinks outside the box and is willing to adapt to the environment that is given to him. That's why brad stevens is doing twice as good with a team that has half the talent

 

You ever think maybe it was the players that killed Vaughn, not the other way around? Two coaches in a row now who can't get these players to bring it every night. Maybe it's more than the coaches.

[HeHateMe 697]

I am officially in for getting rid of everyone on this team who isn't Aaron, Evan, Dipo, and Mario (and with Mario it's just potential, he hasn't really earned that loyalty). Evan and Dipo come to play every night, and they contribute consistently. Aaron is getting there, and his potential is sky high.

 

Vuc is sadly just not going to cut it on D.

 

And Payton needs to be benched immediately. I understand he gets sat down during all these games where he's playing flat and not doing ****. But he keeps his starting job. That needs to change. He comes out like he's coasting way too often against lesser teams, and it gets us killed. If it's me, I start Jennings the rest of the season, see what we really have there. The problem is, I don't know that the higher-ups will let Skiles bench Elfrid. I haven't liked his attitude since he came here, and this year has just been really frustrating watching him play on his own little island.

 

One thing Skiles has done a great job of: he's shown us who the real professionals are on this team. That's what we wanted from him, accountability. Evan gets huge minutes because he plays hard every night. Dipo got benched early in the season, took it like a man, and earned his way back into the SL by playing his ass off every night. Gordon got into the SL by earning it coming in off the bench and playing hard. Elf gets sat down for two-thirds of games because he just doesn't play hard. Vuc gets sat for long stretches because he gives no effort on D. Dedmon stopped getting major minutes because his focus went to **** and he started taking stupid shots and camping out for blocks on D. People can hate on Skiles all they want, but he didn't put this team together, he's just tasked with teaching them how to win. We saw in December that Skiles' system is not outdated. It just relies on guys playing hard. You can call him a bad motivator, but he hasn't been here long enough for that to be clear at all. He's motivated Dipo and Evan, and Aaron as well. Even Vuc plays harder than he did for Vaughn.

 

Rant over... probably

 

I'm with most all of this. It's funny to me how people are so quick to want Skiles canned when the roster has SERIOUS flaws, and that falls on Rob. Don't get me wrong, plenty of blame to go around to the players and head coach too, but if anyone thinks by getting a new coach were all the sudden a playoff team I think that is completely wrong. We said the same thing about Vaughn: "he's lost the team" "guys aren't getting better" "he's a terrible motivator" etc etc. Fast forward a year and we're saying the same thing about Skiles. Well, maybe it's not the coach. Maybe it is indeed the players. Could it just be that this roster doesn't work? That seems far more likely to me.

[HeHateMe 697]

You ever think maybe it was the players that killed Vaughn, not the other way around? Two coaches in a row now who can't get these players to bring it every night. Maybe it's more than the coaches.

 

It's easier for people on here to just blame the coach. It's harder to admit that this 5 year rebuild has netted us not much at all. It's hard to admit that our "young gun" core of Dipo, Harris, Payton, Vuch really didn't work out. So here we are now, forced to blame coaching again.

 

I'm not panicking. We have a keeper in AG, a high potential guy in Mario, and a hard worker in Dipo. I still think with those 3 we have something. But the rest of the roster doesn't mesh and is in need ob BIG upgrades. I still like Vuch as he's one of the more skilled offensive bigs in the league, but he obviously comes with major defensive liabilities.

[Soul Bro 1,422]

"@Mike_Dhillion Skiles said Payton was terrible on defense in all aspects. Was slow and lethargic in the third quarter."

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/OMagicDaily/status/707449750669430789

[Soul Bro 1,422]

The Payton and Skiles situation reminds me of the Rondo and Carlisle situation.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

It's easier for people on here to just blame the coach. It's harder to admit that this 5 year rebuild has netted us not much at all. It's hard to admit that our "young gun" core of Dipo, Harris, Payton, Vuch really didn't work out. So here we are now, forced to blame coaching again.

 

I'm not panicking. We have a keeper in AG, a high potential guy in Mario, and a hard worker in Dipo. I still think with those 3 we have something. But the rest of the roster doesn't mesh and is in need ob BIG upgrades. I still like Vuch as he's one of the more skilled offensive bigs in the league, but he obviously comes with major defensive liabilities.

 

I like Vuc too. I think he's got insane talent on the offensive end. But he needs to be on a team like OKC where he can be hidden by Serge on D. I honestly think back before teams started spamming PNR's at you all day, he would have been a top center in the league kind of guy. He has that kind of talent on offense, and he rebounds, and his hand-eye coordination is solid enough that he isn't that bad a shot-blocker when he's actually there for the block. But as I said before, to be successful with him as our starting center, AG needs to become all-world on D, and the PG position has to be elite as well. Right now AG is still learning how to cover for him, and Payton is "slow and lethargic" on D more often than not.

 

I get how it's easy to blame the coach. Skiles IS stubborn. And he doesn't coddle the players. So it's easy to say, "he's a bully who's out of touch and doesn't change with the times." But Vaughn coddled the hell out of the players, was young and analytical and just let guys play through the mistakes. And it got us three sub-30 win seasons. Skiles hasn't had the immediate impact we were hoping he would, but he has righted Dipo's defense from the crap it was last year, he has maximized Fournier, he has instilled a good mentality into Aaron, and Vuc has improved - just not enough. The only real unexpected issue is Payton has been a train wreck. Jennings talks about how he hated playing for Skiles back in the day, but that it helped him become a better player in the end. Payton might have the same type of turnaround, but as of right now they are clashing big time.

[heisenberg 18]

The tweet by Jennings is really unacceptable, as is Payton's post game comment about his defense being fine. This train has derailed, starting with the PG position.

Whatd he say?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

It's easier for people on here to just blame the coach. It's harder to admit that this 5 year rebuild has netted us not much at all. It's hard to admit that our "young gun" core of Dipo, Harris, Payton, Vuch really didn't work out. So here we are now, forced to blame coaching again.

 

I'm not panicking. We have a keeper in AG, a high potential guy in Mario, and a hard worker in Dipo. I still think with those 3 we have something. But the rest of the roster doesn't mesh and is in need ob BIG upgrades. I still like Vuch as he's one of the more skilled offensive bigs in the league, but he obviously comes with major defensive liabilities.

 

Well the rebuild was never going to be build a roster from scratch and contend with that roster. we were always going to have to pick and choose 3/4 out of the 6 or 7 guys and then build a better fitting roster around them.

 

I think the expectation was we should be able to have a benchmark level of success based on talent alone even with the flawed roster (i.e. 38 to 44 wins) before we have to determine who's a keeper.

[Murphy13 185]

"@Mike_Dhillion Skiles said Payton was terrible on defense in all aspects. Was slow and lethargic in the third quarter."

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/OMagicDaily/status/707449750669430789

 

I don't disagree with the statement, though, open question: If Payton's defense was bad on (presumably) Russell, then how would one describe Gordon's defense on Randle? Just overmatched, if not slow and lethargic? Isn't that worse?

[Murphy13 185]

Whatd he say?

 

He said basically, 'the joke's on him this year'

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I don't disagree with the statement, though, open question: If Payton's defense was bad on (presumably) Russell, then how would one describe Gordon's defense on Randle? Just overmatched, if not slow and lethargic? Isn't that worse?

 

yeah, sure. but by every metric available Gordon is our best defensive player so you can shrug off singular events of poor defense.