Preseason Thread

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Its a great article and why I believe that the Magic may move Victor and/or Harris if they like what they see from Hezonja and Gordon.

 

Sure, I get these new guys are young and unproven, but we need a star player. No one on this roster is really that proven anyway.

 

Again, people are making it out like I want to trade Victor after 5 preseason games. I am not saying that. Its just something to watch. Who is moving the ball and playing efficiently in the offense? If Payton is the PG of the future, who fits next to him best?

 

It's just something to watch this year. Again, I am not saying I want to trade Victor right now. I do want to see how he develops in this offense.

 

I love posts like this, because they are completely meaningless.

 

"We should trade these players, but maybe not. We should maybe trade these other players instead, but maybe not. These new guys might be great, or maybe they won't be that good.

 

Forget it, Jake; it's Chinatown."

[Skywise316 211]

Did anyone ever stop to consider that since Golden State won the championship, an underrated reason is because of how insanely deep they were, and that now other teams are going to try to copy THEM by making their rosters as deep as possible?

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Anytime you can trade your starting shooting guard who put up 17.9/4.2/4.1 last year to make way for a rookie who just put up 16pts, 3.8rebs, and 1.7asts per36 on .414/.316 through 5 preseason games(and plays another position), you basically have to do it.

 

For the record(and in the interest of fair comparisons), Oladipo has put up 17.1pts, 4.1rebs, and 3.5asts per 36 on .512/.429/.833. He's also only averaging 1.48 turnovers per 36 so far in the preseason.

 

So any argument that Oladipo hasn't been ghastly efficient in the preseason this year is an insane one, even with his bad night on Tuesday.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Did anyone ever stop to consider that since Golden State won the championship, an underrated reason is because of how insanely deep they were, and that now other teams are going to try to copy THEM by making their rosters as deep as possible?

 

There are multiple ways to win a championship and the only requirement is scoring more points than the other team more often than they outscore you. The Golden State model (good defense and three point shooting) works because they are cabable of building big leads quickly and recovering from big deficits quickly. Teams are going to have a difficult time replicating Golden State because its very unlikely to find a Curry. He has so much gravity on a basketball court its crazy.

 

the way to counter this is excellent perimeter defense and the ability to switch. Thats why cleveland gave them so much trouble despite being at a relative talent disadvantage. The type of roster we're building is also capable of shutting down teams like golden state in theory. We just need to actually execute better.

 

 

The best way to build a team is to find the best players possible and avoid weaknesses. then build an offense around their strengths.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,033]

[Catman 380]

I love posts like this, because they are completely meaningless.

 

"We should trade these players, but maybe not. We should maybe trade these other players instead, but maybe not. These new guys might be great, or maybe they won't be that good.

 

Forget it, Jake; it's Chinatown."

 

Again, I said I was just starting discussion since this place has been dead. I basically said it WAS meaningless, but it was my observations from watching 2 games and attending a game already. Just because I am predicting these things to happen there is no need to get salty about it.

 

And also, your interpretation of my quote is complete incorrect. I already said I believe the new guys will be great. I personally believe Gordon/Elfrid and Mario will all be great players and I already clearly stated that in this thread. Not sure where you are getting that from, but you are trying too hard to make a point here.

 

 

For the record(and in the interest of fair comparisons), Oladipo has put up 17.1pts, 4.1rebs, and 3.5asts per 36 on .512/.429/.833. He's also only averaging 1.48 turnovers per 36 so far in the preseason.

 

So any argument that Oladipo hasn't been ghastly efficient in the preseason this year is an insane one, even with his bad night on Tuesday.

 

The definition of efficiency is not just based on points versus turnovers. I am talking about efficiency within an offense. There was just an article posted in this thread that showed what I am talking about, so there is no need to play dumb here. The reality is that if you watched this team, you will see how the offense has changed :

 

Much more off ball movement to set up catch and shoots.

Multiple screens to free up these shots and create mismatches for the rebound

 

In other words it is not very efficient in this offense to catch the ball and ISO at the top of the key or hold the ball by dribbling too long. These are two things he is doing. He is also not knocking down catch and shoot 3s at a high rate, most of his made threes are coming from off the dribble. I am not sure he is comfortable doing that yet. He does not look it so far. More importantly, his shot motion does not look improved, which means he will be a little streakier from 3 than we need from a guy playing next to Elf. Ideally the SG next to Elf needs to flirt with 40% from 3 to keep the spacing.

 

The biggest improvement is he is getting out on the break and drawing fouls. That is very good. My concerns are more based on the half court game.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Oh, ok. You've been to 2 games. Clearly you know what's best, even when the statistics say the opposite of what you're claiming.

 

Turn Oladipo into a parking lot.

[Catman 380]

Oh, ok. You've been to 2 games. Clearly you know what's best, even when the statistics say the opposite of what you're claiming.

 

Turn Oladipo into a parking lot.

 

You are just simplifying everything I am saying to be cranky and argumentative, but it's why we love the Jesus.

 

If you just want to look at preseason stats and not look at how a player functions in the offense, that's fine. This is preseason basketball so I personally look at how players work within a scheme. Once the regular season hits and we have established rotations the stats are a lot more relevant to me.

 

Hell, I have posted regular season stats just like you did in defense of giving Tobias Harris a max deal. Another argument I took a ton of grief for making. Not from you, but my point is that I am not one to discount stats when it matters. I just don't put a ton of value into preseason stats when a new offense is being implemented. I like to look at how the players function within the scheme. Perfect example is Channing Frye. That guy looks like a different player now simply due to usage.

 

If you just look at stats you will probably not understand how valuable Dedmon appears to our defense when he comes in a game so far. I am not sure how many blocks he is getting, but if you watch the games it is clear he is making a dramatic difference on the defensive side for us. His offense is very limited unfortunately.

[Skywise316 211]

There are multiple ways to win a championship and the only requirement is scoring more points than the other team more often than they outscore you. The Golden State model (good defense and three point shooting) works because they are cabable of building big leads quickly and recovering from big deficits quickly. Teams are going to have a difficult time replicating Golden State because its very unlikely to find a Curry. He has so much gravity on a basketball court its crazy.

 

the way to counter this is excellent perimeter defense and the ability to switch. Thats why cleveland gave them so much trouble despite being at a relative talent disadvantage. The type of roster we're building is also capable of shutting down teams like golden state in theory. We just need to actually execute better.

 

 

The best way to build a team is to find the best players possible and avoid weaknesses. then build an offense around their strengths.

 

I totally agree with you in principle on GSW being difficult to replicate, I'm just saying that I think a lot of these sports leagues like the NFL and NBA have copy cat franchises once someone wins a championship in a defined way, especially if that turns into a repeat or threepeat. When I hear Skiles wants team defense (not new) and uptempo offense (okay, that's new)...

[Magicman28 295]

To clear the air, you were not the one I was referencing in my post. You did not make the statements I found to be ridiculous in this case.

 

Maybe it was my post? I'm a fan man. We all are. We come here to post our thoughts and opinions. We don't have to be right all the time or be some analysis providing exact mathematical answers for our opinions. We based a lot on eye viewing. Part of the enjoyment of being a fan imo.

 

From what I've seen out of Dipo the last few years, and what I see from Mario, it's the preseason I know, you can see Mario is more seasoned offensively. Was that a surprise? Dipo was never a offensive player in college. He was a defensive player who was a slasher. He was never a player you give the ball in ISO and let him create offense. He has shown above average capability in that role and I wouldn't doubt the possibility of him improving even more and this whole talk will be moot then. Dude is a gym rat with a good IQ. I'm not ready to give up on him or trade him right now. I'm just looking at the bigger picture down the road. Mario is a legit 6'8 who is showing the potential to be a better offensive player (also with crazy athleticism and arguably better handles) WHICH is what got him the attention and picked at 5. In the games I've seen, Mario just looks a lot more capable overall to handle whatever the defense gives him. Dipo, again, no slouch, seems to know but at times, seems to get lost.

 

It's early. No one is proposing trading Dipo right now but it's something to keep in the back of our minds because I agree firmly with Cat, AG will be a SF in the long haul and I said this a year ago. When AG speaks, he always mentions himself and the SF position. Sure, he'll switch to PF at times but the man improved his outside shot because he feels like with his length on defense, his ability to pass the ball off of the rebound, he believes he's a better weapon at the SF spot. Crazy thing is, so does Tobias. He's echoed the same comments. In due time, we're gonna have to get a PF who WANTS to be a PF. Not just spend some time there and while we'll enjoy the current players and their contributions, some of us also will enjoy talking about the possibilities on how to acquire that PF.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Maybe it was my post? I'm a fan man. We all are. We come here to post our thoughts and opinions. We don't have to be right all the time or be some analysis providing exact mathematical answers for our opinions. We based a lot on eye viewing. Part of the enjoyment of being a fan imo.

 

From what I've seen out of Dipo the last few years, and what I see from Mario, it's the preseason I know, you can see Mario is more seasoned offensively. Was that a surprise? Dipo was never a offensive player in college. He was a defensive player who was a slasher. He was never a player you give the ball in ISO and let him create offense. He has shown above average capability in that role and I wouldn't doubt the possibility of him improving even more and this whole talk will be moot then. Dude is a gym rat with a good IQ. I'm not ready to give up on him or trade him right now. I'm just looking at the bigger picture down the road. Mario is a legit 6'8 who is showing the potential to be a better offensive player (also with crazy athleticism and arguably better handles) WHICH is what got him the attention and picked at 5. In the games I've seen, Mario just looks a lot more capable overall to handle whatever the defense gives him. Dipo, again, no slouch, seems to know but at times, seems to get lost.

 

It's early. No one is proposing trading Dipo right now but it's something to keep in the back of our minds because I agree firmly with Cat, AG will be a SF in the long haul and I said this a year ago. When AG speaks, he always mentions himself and the SF position. Sure, he'll switch to PF at times but the man improved his outside shot because he feels like with his length on defense, his ability to pass the ball off of the rebound, he believes he's a better weapon at the SF spot. Crazy thing is, so does Tobias. He's echoed the same comments. In due time, we're gonna have to get a PF who WANTS to be a PF. Not just spend some time there and while we'll enjoy the current players and their contributions, some of us also will enjoy talking about the possibilities on how to acquire that PF.

 

 

No way is Mario more seasoned offensively. Right now he's completely hit or miss. he's going to be a guy who averages like 7 or 8 ppg this season with a random 30 point night and a couple 18+ point nights balanced out by several 1/8, 3/12 type games.

 

 

Right now we play in a league with 11 teams with old school pound you down low power forwards that can hurt you in a game. I'm not worried about having Gordon play Kevin Love, Dirk, Morris, Ibaka, ryan anderson, donatas, ilyasova, bass, mirotic, etc. Right now only Davis, Aldridge, Griffin, Gasol, Randolph, Favors, and Horford are the ones you have to worry about and the majority of those guys are in the west. Additionally, Golden State beat Memphis by sticking Harrison Barnes on Randolph.

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

The old eye test vs stats argument. Personally I'll take numbers over opinions any day.