The Rebuild is Working - Here is why

[Catman 380]

Yeah, NOW! It's been what 2 or 3 games?!

 

Come on Cat. I thought you had more basketball sense then this. When Vic got back, Payton went to the bench and Vic was the main initiator while wearing mask, while working on his conditioning. The guy missed training camp for pete sakes.

 

Less arc? Your kidding right? Your actually going to sit here and tell me you can't fix an players arc? How much ball have you played man?

 

I do agree Payton's shot can be fixed but Payton's shot is way more unorthodox and fundamentally flawed than Dipo's. Watch Payton's drawback. Look at his shoulders and hips. With even that being said, I'm not going to sit here and say he won't improve on it so I don't know why SOME of yall are saying Dipo can't improve either.

 

BTW...On Vic being a leader. I have good basketball sense since I played it and was engulfed in it for many, many years. I'm going to tell you that this team, will go as far as Vic takes them. His hard work. His ability to play on both ends. His versatility. Your gonna see, him being a leader eventually, will be important. I think Tobias could be there too but his lack of versatility and defensive shortcomings will keep him just underneath Vic.

 

Ok, so we are going to take it in this direction with basketball IQ and experience? I played AAU level basketball. I worked with multiple shooting coaches over that time who taught me what shots can be fixed easily and what can't. One resides in Winter Park and was hired to work with Shaq, which was a very difficult task. Hopefully that helps clarify my opinion.

 

Victor's shot is deeply ingrained and will be tougher to fix. You can argue it all day if you want, but you basically explained the same thing I just said about Elf. His issue is prep. that is a lot easier to fix.

 

I personally believe that long term, our leader will be Aaron Gordon. He has incredible leadership skills, he is just too young right now.

 

Also, Victor got 70 touches against the Cavs last week. I am using that stat from a recent game, not one before Elf was starting.

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

Yeah, NOW! It's been what 2 or 3 games?!

 

Come on Cat. I thought you had more basketball sense then this. When Vic got back, Payton went to the bench and Vic was the main initiator while wearing mask, while working on his conditioning. The guy missed training camp for pete sakes.

 

Less arc? Your kidding right? Your actually going to sit here and tell me you can't fix an players arc? How much ball have you played man?

 

I do agree Payton's shot can be fixed but Payton's shot is way more unorthodox and fundamentally flawed than Dipo's. Watch Payton's drawback. Look at his shoulders and hips. With even that being said, I'm not going to sit here and say he won't improve on it so I don't know why SOME of yall are saying Dipo can't improve either.

 

BTW...On Vic being a leader. I have good basketball sense since I played it and was engulfed in it for many, many years. I'm going to tell you that this team, will go as far as Vic takes them. His hard work. His ability to play on both ends. His versatility. Your gonna see, him being a leader eventually, will be important. I think Tobias could be there too but his lack of versatility and defensive shortcomings will keep him just underneath Vic.

 

The majority of players at this point find it very difficult to change the specific way they shoot the ball. Sure you can change the motion itself and your hand and elbow placement, but changing the way a player arcs their shot is difficult to do because it is so ingrained into their brain. Think of Rashard Lewis, despite even being a good shooter people tried to change his shot, and it never worked for him.

[Catman 380]

The majority of players at this point find it very difficult to change the specific way they shoot the ball. Sure you can change the motion itself and your hand and elbow placement, but changing the way a player arcs their shot is difficult to do because it is so ingrained into their brain. Think of Rashard Lewis, despite even being a good shooter people tried to change his shot, and it never worked for him.

 

Exactly.

 

It is cringey to read a guy challenge people's basketball knowledge and then say something like that. It doesn't add up or make sense.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Well Vuc already is a top C in the NBA (on a great contract) so I don't see the benefit of moving him for Okafor, thus I tab that a lateral move. I get what your saying about flexibility though, which can be a great thing as long as it equates into actual talent on the floor. I do have faith in Henny so it should be interesting, hopefully relatively soon.

 

I think Okafor's ceiling is greater than Vuc's ceiling but I think it's a dangerous game to trade a guy who is already very good for a prospect playing a position that is full of cautionary tales. Is Okafor patrick Ewing? Or is he Olowakandi? Or is he Marcus Camby? Or is he Oden? Or is he Tyson Chandler? Or is he Eddy Curry? Or is he Deandre Jordan.

 

There have been plenty of next great centers in the NBA. I'm not sure I'd trade Vuc for Okafor unless they have faith he's going to be a significant upgrade.

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

I think he is an anchor you can build a team around. Whereas I think Nik is a great piece who takes a team with an all star wing to the next level.

 

I agree. I think Okafor is such an awesome post scorer that he could be a legitimate #1 option and 20+ ppg scorer.

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

I really don't think people are getting it... This team is STACKED. I mean really, freaking STACKED. At every position their is what essentially amounts to a top 10 draft talent level player (may not have been drafted in the top 10 but they are showing that level of skill/talent). Look at Elf, Vic, Harris, AG and Vuch. Now imagine them fully panning out into the talent that we imagine of them. There is a possibility for an all star level on every one of those players. Seriously. Take that and compare it to the last year of the Dwight era. There was no hope for the future on that team at all. NONE.

 

And now there is serious hope. If just two or three of those players play up to their ceiling Orlando will be competing at least for a top half of the east within two to three years WITHOUT making other moves. Thats what Hennigan has built. Patience is something Magic fans haven't had to learn. For such a young team we haven't had many years of failure. I don't think Orlando has gone a longer period without a winning season. But of all the other losing teams currently in the league, I can't think of one I would switch rosters with right now.

 

Give it some time guys.

[Catman 380]

Well Vuc already is a top C in the NBA (on a great contract) so I don't see the benefit of moving him for Okafor, thus I tab that a lateral move. I get what your saying about flexibility though, which can be a great thing as long as it equates into actual talent on the floor. I do have faith in Henny so it should be interesting, hopefully relatively soon.

 

I simply believe Okafor will be an elite center - better than Nik, and more balanced on the defensive end.

 

It's up to you. Is Okafor a can't miss star like scouts believe? Then you go get him if possible. Nik is not a superstar, but Okafor has that potential.

 

Instead of 19-20/12, you could get 25/12 with Okafor. That is just my opinion, but it helps illustrate what I am saying a little better.

[magicblue 315]

I agree. I think Okafor is such an awesome post scorer that he could be a legitimate #1 option and 20+ ppg scorer.

 

I think Demarcus Cousins is a fair comp for Okafor in many ways. Go to scorer, all-star, but not sure if he's the next great big man in a league where the value of big men seems to decrease year after year.

[Catman 380]

I think Okafor's ceiling is greater than Vuc's ceiling but I think it's a dangerous game to trade a guy who is already very good for a prospect playing a position that is full of cautionary tales. Is Okafor patrick Ewing? Or is he Olowakandi? Or is he Marcus Camby? Or is he Oden? Or is he Tyson Chandler? Or is he Eddy Curry? Or is he Deandre Jordan.

 

There have been plenty of next great centers in the NBA. I'm not sure I'd trade Vuc for Okafor unless they have faith he's going to be a significant upgrade.

 

 

Rob went aggressively after a top 2 pick last year with Aflallo plus 4. He balked at giving up both picks, which was smart.

 

This draft is a better draft than last years. Okafor is a better prospect than any player last year.

 

So I could see Rob trying to make another move again. Maybe it doesn't involve Vuc. But I can't see us moving up to the top 2 without losing one of our best assets. And trading Harris to move up and get another C seems kind of odd. So in that case it would probably be time to go for Towns, put him down low next to Vuc and play Gordon at SF.

 

Then you look at how that goes - if it is clear that Gordon needs to play PF, you trade Vuc and get a SF.

 

This is the asset game. It's a good thing even though it takes a while.

[Magicman28 295]

Ok, so we are going to take it in this direction with basketball IQ and experience? I played AAU level basketball. I worked with multiple shooting coaches over that time who taught me what shots can be fixed easily and what can't. One resides in Winter Park and was hired to work with Shaq, which was a very difficult task. Hopefully that helps clarify my opinion.

 

Victor's shot is deeply ingrained and will be tougher to fix. You can argue it all day if you want, but you basically explained the same thing I just said about Elf. His issue is prep. that is a lot easier to fix.

 

I personally believe that long term, our leader will be Aaron Gordon. He has incredible leadership skills, he is just too young right now.

 

Also, Victor got 70 touches against the Cavs last week. I am using that stat from a recent game, not one before Elf was starting.

 

Never played AAU ball. You got me on that but let me tell you, I worked my tail off. I worked with some great coaches. I had coaches teach me all the fundamentals. Square up with the toes, hips and elbows all in line. Focus on the back part of the rim, etc, etc. In fact, I worked hard on all aspects of my game and got pretty damn good. I won't get into a pissing match because the fact is, we are both sitting here on a message board. Not pros.

 

One thing I learned, you can never say player A will never be able to develop or improve on skill B. One reason I didn't go further into a basketball career was because I was more interested in how a player/person can develop and improve skills and athletic performance. I've researched this for the last 20+ years and continue to do so this day. In my experience, and this whole debate came from the lack of confidence and Dipo's shooting, is never say never. If Dipo, who seems to be intelligent and hard working, wants a more consistent shot, he will get it rather it's working on arc or something else. Same goes for Payton. Payton's issues are prep but also flat out mechanics.

 

AG as our leader? I don't know. It's all hindsight 20/20 bs. All of our talent is young. I know it's fun to predict but let's not predict the worse for a young talent, Oladipo. I firmly believe positive thinking produces positive results. Oladipo had a rough beginning to this year. Let's see what he does NOW JV wised up and put him at SG with Payton. Let's see how they develop.

[Catman 380]

I think Demarcus Cousins is a fair comp for Okafor in many ways. Go to scorer, all-star, but not sure if he's the next great big man in a league where the value of big men seems to decrease year after year.

 

I love Cousins. IMO, he is one of the best if not THE best C in the game right now. Very physical and can score in a multitude of ways.

 

If SAC said they would trade Cousins for Vuc, I would be stunned if somebody was opposed to that trade. It would never happen of course because Cousins is a complete stud.

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

I think Demarcus Cousins is a fair comp for Okafor in many ways. Go to scorer, all-star, but not sure if he's the next great big man in a league where the value of big men seems to decrease year after year.

 

I love that comp! Can't believe I never saw it.