Magic sign Channing Frye

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

Eskobar....I enjoy reading your posts....You have some good insight.

 

This post made me lol

[ball junkie 277]

This post made me lol

 

It was meant sincerely...Is that a problem ???

[ball junkie 277]

Thanks, I admit I'm a stubborn person, but personally I believe there's a mob mentality that exists on this forum that too many people are afraid to break free from. When someone comes along that doesn't agree with the handful of regulars, just for the sake of fitting in, some people on here can't understand that.

 

When you have mods openly mocking my views as if they are trash, it doesn't help the cause. That kind of behavior is unacceptable from a mod in my opinion, and it creates an environment where new posters are reluctant to share their views. I've been a poster on Pewter Report for over 15 years, there are new posters showing up there all the time. I don't notice nearly as many new posters on this forum as I do over there, I can't help but think the environment that exists over here, the mob mentality, that mods help perpetuate, is to blame.

 

Couldn't have said it better....And Soul Bro is a lifelong friend of mine and we have definitely discussed this.

[Optimist Prime 197]

The answer to my question is, he provides virtually nothing outside of his three point shot (spreading the floor in the process). That's his game. I'm not saying it isn't useful, It just isn't worth 8 million per year. Phoenix has a lot of cap space, yet they let the guy walk. Why do you think this is? It's because he doesn't bring enough to the team to warrant the contract we gave him. Even when factoring in all of these mystery qualities nobody can seem to name.

 

Spreading the floor doesn't only affect point guards. Harkless and Harris will have open lanes to cut and Vuc will have plenty of opportunities for offensive rebounds with one less guy in the paint. It changes other teams' defensive schemes and allows our uber-athletic core to utilize their gifts in open space.

 

That space also allows them the freedom to make some mistakes, and escape pressure which could be a confidence killer for young and developing guys. His three point shooting threat is compounded by his size and ability to draw larger PFs out of the paint. Bosh can't even do this, as seen in the Spurs series when they left him wide open at the three point line because he has a less reliable shot.

 

Screen and rolls or screen and pops withe Frye and Oladipo/Payton will be devastating on other teams because of those two guards' quick step.

 

Good screens, points, and rebounds are usually what you look for in bigs. Frye can help on two of those and open space for Vuc and our above average rebounding guards to get the other.

 

Phoenix didn't match the offer partly because we loaded the contract, but also because they want to draw Lebron and can't commit salary until they know he is out of play for them (as I posted in the free agency thread).

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

TL;DR version of Escobar:

 

"It's not that everyone thinks I'm wrong;

 

It's that everyone knows I'm secretly right but doesn't want to admit it for reasons I'm going to imply exist so I don't ever have to bother naming them."

[jmmagicfan 302]

He's increasing their 3pt percentage by providing them space. The player still has to have the talent to actually make the shot. Space or not, if you can't shoot you can't shoot. Payton isn't known to have a solid outside shot, in fact nobody outside of Frye and Fournier on our roster have that. Adding Frye isn't going to magically make these guys better shooters.

Okay, let's try this. His primary offensive gifts are being a good 3pt shooting, stretch 4. This means he opens space up by pulling the opposing PF out of the lane. This benefits both other 3pt shooting, and penetrations/finishes by your PG. Regardless of how solid your outside shot is, it is better with more time/space to take it. He is a quick decision-maker in the pick and roll or pick and pop, and while his pass doesn't always lead directly to the basket or the assist, it does promote ball movement and frequently leads to the next pass, which does lead to a basket. (ie the "hockey" assist) It also opens up space for your wings to crash the boards for offensive rebounds.

 

On the defensive end, he is rated as an above-average defender. He is not a great rebounder, shot-blocker, or steals producer; but at 6'11" he does get a lot of tip-outs, and deflections so that others on the team can get those rebounds/steals.

 

He has the reputation of being a good locker-room guy, who can provide the veteran leadership we lost with the trade/waive of AA/Jameer, without being a guy who needs/demands 30+ minutes per game. He has immediate acceptance from Tobias Harris, who we expect to step up into some of this teams leadership vacuum; as he is T12's older cousin whom he has always looked up to. Having one of your young leaders accept a new-to-the-team veteran presence is also important.

 

I have some doubts whether that all adds up to being worth $8M a year; but I am willing to give Hennigan the benefit of the doubt. We didn't end up with Lopez or Bynum for Dwight, instead we got AA/Vucevic/Harkless. JJ didn't leave as a free-agent, instead we got Harris. I don't see the plan with the B Gordon signing, I have doubts about the expense of the Frye signing; but I am reserving judgement, as I think Hennigan has earned the chance to prove his plan.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

I've read each post in its entirety. Saying the same thing in different ways doesn't add more to a players value. He stretches the floor and in a different system helped his PG's. I get it, you guys have repeated the same things over and over. What nobody seems to be able to tell me is what he provides outside of that. He's a one dimensional player, and the rebuttal to that is to keep repeating his one dimension?

 

The answer to my question is, he provides virtually nothing outside of his three point shot (spreading the floor in the process). That's his game. I'm not saying it isn't useful, It just isn't worth 8 million per year. Phoenix has a lot of cap space, yet they let the guy walk. Why do you think this is? It's because he doesn't bring enough to the team to warrant the contract we gave him. Even when factoring in all of these mystery qualities nobody can seem to name.

 

First of all, again, because I'm certain I've said this before, but boiling down what he brings to the table as "he's a three point shooter" is a gross understatement. Let me recap for you, since you obviously missed and or blatantly ignored points made along the way:

 

Yes, he's a three point shooter, and a pretty good one, especially at his position.

 

Given this particular ability he also- spaces the floor, keeping a C or PF away from the paint to give others more room to operate.

 

His 3 point shot also makes him very effective in the pick & roll.

 

The attention he draws as a shooter helps free up other guys, which is why their 3-pt shooting percentages increase. Not by way of magic, by way of getting better looks at the rim.

 

He's a "character" guy that Hennigan targets as part of the cultural rebuild to the team.

 

Solid leader on and off the court, and no, not all vets can and do provide quality leadership, your point about them all providing this and none bring more or less to the table is absurd. With that logic, a guy like Agent 0 would be just as good as a vet leader on a team as say, a Tim Duncan (ignoring talent levels and focusing just on leadership for the sake or argument). One of those guys you would want on your team and want other players to take after them, one you would pay millions of dollars to stay away and use as an example of how not to conduct yourself.

 

He's a guy that can start now, and transition into a back up role as other improve (unlike a guy like Aflallo who isn't ready to take a back seat).

 

But no, you're right, let's just boil all this down to "take's 3 point shots".

 

Phoenix let him walk because they have to wait to see what happens with the top tier of free agents first, that's what's great about a move like this. We'd have to overpay to get a guy away from a playoff team anyway, but by making the move now, while other teams are waiting for the big dominoes to fall. They let his contract expire to give themselves more flexibility, not because they wanted to let him go.

 

letting Channing Frye's contract expire the Phoenix Suns gave themselves financial flexibility to sign free agents but also ran the risk that another team might swoop in and make the versatile stretch big an offer he couldn't refuse.

 

According to Adrian Wojnarowski from Yahoo! Sports, the Suns will try and make sure they don't lose the veteran's services.

 

Link

 

Frye was an unrestricted free agent with significant interest across the league for his rare combination of size and 3-point shooting ability. He was a key to the Suns system as a starting power forward whose perimeter shooting threat opened up driving lanes for guards Goran Dragic and Eric Bledsoe, and as a leader for last season's young team.

 

Link

 

But again, let's misrepresent his departure as a lack of interest, because it suits our argument.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

If I want to say something I'll say it, I'm not going to hint at it or imply it. It's not that I believe people think I'm right, it's that they don't even take the time to consider what I'm saying. Why? Because I'm not a regular, so who cares, right?

 

And I did name the reason, mob mentality. In what way am I implying something "without bothering to name it", while I just named it? I couldn't care less if you agree with that or not, it's my personal opinion, one that has been backed up by a long time poster of this forum. The likelihood of you agreeing with my opinion doesn't factor in to my thought process.

 

It's more than a bit telling that this post doesn't even allow for the POSSIBILITY that you might just be wrong.

[Optimist Prime 197]

I don't mean any offense, but you stated "okay let's try this" and then proceeded to repeat everything that has been said. Everything is centered around his ability to stretch the floor. This isn't a foreign concept to me. Channing Frye is not the glue of a team, he isn't the engine that makes everything work. His value is being drastically overstated.

 

I never imagined a guy with a PER of 13 would draw so much positive feedback. I have a feeling a lot of you are going to be disappointed in what Frye provides to the team. Expectations are pretty high with this guy.

 

I think the main assessment has been that he should be a solid role player/contributor/veteran presence that helps the young guys grow. I think most of the Frye defense has been reactionary to the negative posts.

 

I think most posters are in the "this is a solid pickup, maybe a bit too pricey, but let's see where it goes" camp because, you know, the season is still four months away. Until the season gets going, we really have no idea how this will turn out. No one can make a true judgment on the signing one way or the other until at least December.

[Dawico 3]

Ok lets try this... what's so much better that Harris brings to the table that Frye doesn't? If you say defense I'm going to laugh as then your comparing an average defender to a slightly miniscule tiny bit better average defender. Is it 3pt shooting... ummm NO. Is it veteran leadership.... NO (having said this Harris COULD have future leadership characteristics). The only thing that Harris has over Frye as a 4 is his athleticism. In exchange for that athleticism we'd be losing out on a serious outside threat with a high IQ. Harris is a tweener who fits better at the 3 than the 4 unless trying to play fast tempo small ball. Frye starting won't hurt gordon's development because he needs a fair bit of development before he's ready to be a starter. Frye starting won't hurt O'Quinn's development because he'll get time as a backup 5 and some 4 minutes (Also anyone who think's O'Quinn has a future as a starter is kidding themselves. His future is a great lockeroom solid glue guy off the bench for depth).

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

For starters, I never said all veterans bring the same level of leadership. If you're going to accuse me of "not reading entire posts", you should probably hold yourself to the same standards. I said there are a lot of guys that can bring leadership, and many of them you can get for a fraction of the cost without no long term commitment. That's very different than saying any veteran player will bring the same amount of leadership. That's nonsense and I never said it.

 

Veteran leadership is veteran leadership, Frye can provide it, and so can Price or Maxiell. Arguing who provides more of it is absolutely ludicrous.

Those were your exact words.

 

The rest of your post is the a rehash of the entire debate. Again repeating everything that has been said before. He frees up room inside, he provides better looks for other shooters by drawing defenders away...right, I get it. How many times are you going to say the same thing over and over? You're just proving my point more and more with each new post. He's a one dimensional guy and your posts prove that whether you realize it or not.

 

You specifically asked me for a summary of what he brings to the table, then you turn around and denounce my post as a summary of my previous posts. You want to boil his talent down to "3 point shooter". I broke it down for you and showed you why it's stupid to over simplify his talent in such a fashion, both because of the many facets that his "3 point shooting" brings to the team, and what he brings outside of his shooting ability. It's not my problem if you want to be so stubborn as to disregard those things.

 

Lets say Harris improves a little and gets his 3pt shot above even 35 percent. With his better all around game (vs Frye) and an improved 3pt shot, he's now a viable option as a stretch four. In other words, without knowing what Harris (or even Gordon) will become, why is it wise to spend 32 million on a guy whose ceiling is already known? My point is that we might already have a Channing Frye, only a much improved and younger version. Doesn't matter now does it? We're locked in for four years.

 

First of all, if those guys improve to the point that Frye is redundant or that his on court talents are surpassed, well, awesome! Then we can reassess the situation, and possibly look to trade him if need be, which, for reasons that should be obvious and have been pointed out several times in this thread, shouldn't be that hard to do, unless his game falls off the face of the earth, in which case (which is the worse case scenario), he still comes off the books at the same time that Gordon and Payton's rookie contracts expire, plus we could use the stretch provision for cap relief if needed.

 

Assuming his game doesn't vanish (and since it isn't based on overall athleticism, it shouldn't) he's an asset, on a slightly overpaid contract that should not be difficult to move. Not to mention that as the salary cap increases from year to year, his deal should improve in comparison to those that are handed out later.

 

 

You can continue to stick your head in the sand and simply repeat yourself over and over, but there have been many responses here that directly address each concern you've brought up and at this point, you're just over reacting.

[Dawico 3]

Wrong about what? Do you personally believe Frye brings enough to this team to warrant not only the contract he signed but also the overwhelmingly positive feedback the move is getting?

 

 

Overwhelmingly positive..... really?!?!? All I'm seeing is a slightly warmish response to the signing with a lot of "paid a bit to much" "needed some team options" "Will help us a bit now but might be a bit crappy in a few years". I would describe most of the posts as slightly positive. The posts from you have all been "THE SKY IS FALLING" "WE'RE SCREWED" in essence all MASSIVELY negative. I understand reacting this strongly if you think you're trying to fight against overwhelming positivity on the signing but you're just plain not.