Rd 1 - Game 5: Playoffs Game Thread Magic @ Pacers

[DanA_TBDP 12]

If we should just sit back and bow down to everything Stan does, what the hell is the point of this forum?

 

Someone said it earlier and it's the truth. Stan is anal about his system and will only play guys who understand the system and will play 100% within the system. He has guys that he trusts and that's who is going to play. I mean Ish wasn't fantastic but his games where Duhon was suspend/injured, he produced numbers that where actually comparable to Duhon's GOOD games. But they lost a couple and Stan (not to give Shaq credit) but "panicked" and went back to what he was comfortable with and that was Duhon running his offense and his plays and playing the style Stan wanted to.

 

That's just who he is. After Dwight got hurt, we played an up-tempo style that I remember all of the fans saying how exciting it was and we gave ourselves a chance to win because it's a lot harder to guard the perimeter in transition than it is in the half court. But Stan kept the bench too short, again we lost a couple because of fatigue, and Stan went back to his grind-it-out crap.

 

Stan is a great coach to have when things are going well and he draws up great plays and has a defensive scheme, after 3 years of learning it, that can be damn hard to score on. But he's run his course here; he was unable to adjust after Dwight went down. He was unable to mix up the rotation and try different things.

 

What bothered me the most was his constant complaining about energy and effort and defense, and yet he never once made a significant tweak to the rotation.

 

It's time to move on and we are moving on. What happens with Otis and the rest of the roster will be interesting.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

He was unable to adjust when Dwight went down because every person that was put on this team needed Dwight in order to be effective, nothing that Stan can do about that.

 

As far as Ish's numbers when Duhon was out, if there was a stat for missed rotations or running around looking for who you are supposed to guard then I could point to that as a reason to play Duhon. Unfortunatley, there isn't anything like that out there.

 

I really don't understand the problem with playing guys that understand your defense. It's a system, it's set up so that guys that are normally sub par defenders are able to play together and create a good team defense. It's what has allowed us to not only get by on D but become one of the top teams in the league on D with only 1 defensive player in the entire building. As with any system it is only as good as it's weakest link, that is why you saw soooo many problems when Bass was on the floor last year, he was an idiot. Players have to be in the right spot and have to know where they are going or there will be holes and the other team will score easily.

 

You mention wanting to play up tempo, who plays well in that type of system on our team that can also play within the defense? JJ is the only one I can think of and I think that is why you saw him as the only one running, he isn't a one man break. If you want to play Von or Ish well, you are going to have to hope you can outscore the other team because your D is going to suck.

 

If you take the Indy series by itself we kept all of those games close because of our defense. We lost because we couldn't score, but without that D we would have been killed. We had NO business being in those games and yet we still managed it. If you weaken that D we still wouldn't have the personel to score with them.

[DanA_TBDP 12]

Kept games close? We lost by 18, 23, and 18. They hit 100 as many times as we hit 80.

[DanA_TBDP 12]

We have a ton of shooters who can get hot from 3. You run and get them open looks in transition. All of our players are better offensive than they are defensive except Q and Clark. Stan tried to turn us into a defensive grind team. We weren't that.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

Kept games close? We lost by 18, 23, and 18. They hit 100 as many times as we hit 80.

 

How were we going into the 3rd on those games?

 

You do realize that saying they can run and having guys that will run are two different things right? We aren't a good offensive team either, do you really think that any combination of our players was going to outscore Indy??

[DanA_TBDP 12]

How were we going into the 3rd on those games?

 

You do realize that saying they can run and having guys that will run are two different things right? We aren't a good offensive team either, do you really think that any combination of our players was going to outscore Indy??

I don't know but I know we weren't going to win against a team who was long and athletic. It's not about having 5 guys who will run. You need a point who will push it or a couple ball handlers who will push it. Meer, Redick, and when given minutes, Ish and Wafer will push the ball. You need the other wings to get out. Q, JRICH, and Redick all showed they could get out on the wing. And Clark will run. BBD would be a good PNR player on the secondary break and could you imagine the looks Ryno would get if the defense is sprinting back and he's coming up on the secondary break? Better than what he got in the Stan offense.

 

And it's not like we didn't play up-tempo when Dwight firs got hurt. We did.

[Manu Ginobili 61]

You missed the most important reason, Ish is not any good. The guy can't shoot, his offense consists of runners that are not likely to go in and he gets lost on defense which causes easy baskets because his teamates cannot rely on him to be in the right place at the right time. I guess the question is would you prefer to lose games because a guy has crappy ball handling or would you prefer to lose games because a guy blows coverages?

 

Well, when Ish started having minutes, he showed he could be a decent 3rd stringer.

 

He has speed (duhon doesn't)

 

He can create offensively and find the open teammate (duhon loses the ball)

 

Defensively, he sucks (as duhon)

 

So, he gives you better performance offensively. He gives you the same defensively.

 

Is it really that hard? Ish is better than Duhon.

 

Duhon is the worst player in the league, bar none. Only thing he can do well is shoot the open 3. How many did he attempted in the Series? 3.

 

I really don't know if he would start in the D League.

 

The excuse for playing Duhon is Zero.

 

The fact that SVG played him even when it was clear the result was negative, really is mind numbing.

 

I am not SVG biggest fan, but i believe it was his only unexcusable move of the series. Duhon was playing like ****, everybody was seeing it, EVERYBODY. Did you see JJ's body language after Duhon layup attempt last night?

 

So, again....WTF was he doing out there?

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

Well, when Ish started having minutes, he showed he could be a decent 3rd stringer.

 

He has speed (duhon doesn't)

 

He can create offensively and find the open teammate (duhon loses the ball)

 

Defensively, he sucks (as duhon)

 

So, he gives you better performance offensively. He gives you the same defensively.

 

Is it really that hard? Ish is better than Duhon.

 

Duhon is the worst player in the league, bar none. Only thing he can do well is shoot the open 3. How many did he attempted in the Series? 3.

 

I really don't know if he would start in the D League.

 

The excuse for playing Duhon is Zero.

 

The fact that SVG played him even when it was clear the result was negative, really is mind numbing.

 

I am not SVG biggest fan, but i believe it was his only unexcusable move of the series. Duhon was playing like ****, everybody was seeing it, EVERYBODY. Did you see JJ's body language after Duhon layup attempt last night?

 

So, again....WTF was he doing out there?

 

Apparently yes, it really is that difficult to understand. Again.. Duhon knows where to be on D so he isn't a liability, Ish is. That is the difference, they both suck, they are just bad in different ways except Duhon doesn't cause your defense to break down.

[Manu Ginobili 61]

Apparently yes, it really is that difficult to understand. Again.. Duhon knows where to be on D so he isn't a liability, Ish is. That is the difference, they both suck, they are just bad in different ways except Duhon doesn't cause your defense to break down.

 

Nothing is supposed to be understood here, it's not like you are teaching me something.

 

Duhon is worse than Ish. Duhon should never play.

 

Duhon causes everything to break down.

[Franchero MVP 391]

Duhon is most definitley worse than Ish. No doubt.

 

Ok, so Duhon knows where to rotate on defense, but what does he do after that? Nothing. He can't hold his man and gets beat off the dribble constantly.

 

We needed more offense this series. As said before, we scored in the 80's most of the time while our opponent hit 100 many times. Sounds to me that relying on duhon's defense over Ish's offense was a stupid decision.

 

But at the end of the day, playing Ish would've only give us a slightly better chance. It wasn't going to win us the series by any means. We lost it because of D12's injury. Simple as that.

 

I think what most people are getting to with the whole Ish vs. Duhon ordeal is mainly about Stan's stubbornness. I like how Stan uses the +/- system to justify playing Duhon, but in previous circumstances, has trashed that very same rating system when it didn't fit his ideas.

 

The only way we can possibly trade Duhon now is if another teams 1st and 2nd string PG both go out at the same time. And even then, i'm sure most teams would rather go to the D-league and find someone rather than consider Duhon being on their team (which is what we should have done by playing Ish). That's how bad he is.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

I still think it's pretty funny how people want stan fired over duhon vs smith/wafer.

[DanA_TBDP 12]

I still think it's pretty funny how people want stan fired over duhon vs smith/wafer.

It's not the sole reason but it's the idea behind playing Duhon that not only has lost him the lockerrroom (and it has) but has also driven many fans beyond supporting him.