2012 Offseason

[Shock Phantom 263]

I'd get the guys that will convince Dwight to stay. NOW. Ellis can be had. We'd def lose JJ over it, but give Magic the second punch it needs. Meer possibly wanting out may be a sign in the right direction. He has heart, but he is limited in what he can do to make other players around him better. I think keeping Dwight and getting the second punch is necessary this summer. I'd love Iggy here, but I don't think that's possible. Utilize the unfortunate circumstances out there. Ellis not happy in Milwaukee, reportedly likes to play with Dwight. JSmoove not happy in Atlanta, reportedly best friends with Dwight. Magic need to do everything to keep Dwight if possible. If no Dwight, we rebuild and get top picks somehow.

I guess we could offer JJ+19+ a rook or 2. Maybe swap Baby for Gooden?

[Arielle 138]

My point is that you don't sign Goran Dragic to a 4 year, 30 million dollar deal until you have your base pieces in place already. Right now, we have one piece and that's Dwight. Now if we had Dwight and let's say a Josh Smith or someone else, then fine, good signing there, but until we get that second piece, cap space > tier 3 players.

 

Good point.

[SATOLS 7]

Or OKC - there's a reason why the locals weren't fighting *too* hard when the douchebag owner lied and packed the team out of Seattle. That was because the team had sucked for years and had just dumped two popular players in Allen and then 'Shard.

 

Different situation. The Sonics left Seattle because their government leaders did not want to pay for a new building. They would still be there now if they had. They played for a season or two in Seattle with Durant on the roster. It did not help. And they dumped Ray Allen and Rashard to make the team easier to sell. And by the way, there are people in Seattle still trying to get a team back.

 

You can thank Alex Martins, Buddy Dyer, Rich Crotty, and Dwight for that not happening in Orlando.

 

The Magic have to sell tickets now or there are problems paying for their building. They can't afford two seasons in the bottom 10 in attendance. I am telling you because I have sat through seasons when the Magic have been bad and seen what a smaller building looked like. And they have 23 years left on their lease.

 

I would be interested to know how many of you guys voting in favor of burning down the roster actually have invested in tickets (and I don't mean one or two games a season). It makes a difference. Because if not enough people in favor of this method actually buy tickets, they aren't going to have many people at the games. And that doesn't create a positive atmosphere for attracting free agents either.

[Shock Phantom 263]

My point is that you don't sign Goran Dragic to a 4 year, 30 million dollar deal until you have your base pieces in place already. Right now, we have one piece and that's Dwight. Now if we had Dwight and let's say a Josh Smith or someone else, then fine, good signing there, but until we get that second piece, cap space > tier 3 players.

I'd agree I just don't know if we can get those pieces via trade and I doubt Dwight would be happy with Duhon or even Andre Miller as his point for a year.

[SATOLS 7]

I guess we could offer JJ+19+ a rook or 2. Maybe swap Baby for Gooden?

 

Put down the pipe.

[DanA_TBDP 12]

How many tickets did Lopez and Brooks sell in Jersey this year? And that's with Deron Williams the last year and a half.

 

If you're going to be average, you better be exciting to watch. Watching a team score 80 with Ryan Anderson as the selling point won't do that, we saw. Stan's grind-it-out mixed with lack of star power, Amway struggled selling playoff tickets.

 

NBA is built off of stars and/or up-tempo. If you have neither, and you aren't in Utah, no one will see your games.

[SATOLS 7]

How many tickets did Lopez and Brooks sell in Jersey this year? And that's with Deron Williams the last year and a half.

 

If you're going to be average, you better be exciting to watch. Watching a team score 80 with Ryan Anderson as the selling point won't do that, we saw. Stan's grind-it-out mixed with lack of star power, Amway struggled selling playoff tickets.

 

NBA is built off of stars and/or up-tempo. If you have neither, and you aren't in Utah, no one will see your games.

 

Are you trying to make my point for me? They got Lopez and Brooks with high picks in the draft. And they did that after missing the playoffs for 5 seasons in a row. They went 34-48 (twice), 12-70, and 24-58 before going 22-44 this season (with Deron Williams on the roster). Do you know how much interest there would be in the Orlando Magic if that happens here?

 

Again, you buy a lot of tickets every season? You going to do so if that is their record?

[DanA_TBDP 12]

I'd agree I just don't know if we can get those pieces via trade and I doubt Dwight would be happy with Duhon or even Andre Miller as his point for a year.

He'd be fine with Miller the minute he gets a one of those lobs that Andre throws better than anyone else. Andre Miller made Javale McGee look like an all-star at times!!

[ws34 14]

Once in a generation player by your own admittance and you want to give him away on the account of a culture change?

 

Re-read what you said and think about how incredibly stupid it is.

 

Dwight is gone. I would love him to stay but he won't commit to staying prior the next season and I'm sure nobody wants The Indecision - Part II.

 

This is the premise I'm using to state what I'm stating, about the need of a culture change.

[Emory889 353]

Well, the Spurs have rebuilt around Duncan -- twice since Robinson retired. Dallas has stayed in the playoffs. Phoenix has stayed in the playoffs, except for this season. Utah has stayed in the playoff hunt. Boston had a down period for several years but mostly has been in the playoffs besides that. Most teams are not swinging wildly between the playoffs and one of the worst teams in the league. Even when Miami has been busting it up, they usually have had one or two players good enough to keep them in the playoffs. (The Wade injury year was an exception.)

 

It's all great to talk about burning it down and starting over so you can win a championship. But to me, that's selling false hope. Has that worked for them yet? No. They don't end up putting it back together correctly, and something always happens to their best-laid plans. At some point, you can't sell hope anymore. You have to back it up with substance for the long term.

 

All of the teams teams that you have named except Utah (I have no explanation for how they have managed to stay pretty good even while losing their star players. Of course, they aren't competing for championships either) have risen up to be good teams right at the same time that they acquired star players. Once those star players are gone, the teams will struggle again.

 

People forget just how bad Dallas was before they drafted Dirk. They had a couple of fun high scoring teams in the 80s but other than that, they were a door mat.

 

Phoenix was ok in the 80s and a very good team in the early 90s when they traded for Barkley. After Barkley left, their teams ranged from ok to mediocre and the team was really bad when they drafted Stoudemire and signed Steve Nash.

 

Boston was bad for more than a couple of seasons. They sucked for all of the 90s and most of last decade with the exception of a couple of years when the Pierce/Antoine Walker duo was good enough to be a decent threat in a very weak Eastern conference. They year before they acquired Garnett and Allen, they were bad enough to have a top 3 pick in the Oden/Durant draft.

 

You'll have to explain to me what exactly you mean when you say the Spurs have rebuilt around Duncan twice. From what I remember, the Spurs have been truly bad exactly once since they drafted Robinson, the year before they drafted Duncan. Other than that, they have been a model of consistency. Of course, that's probably going to change when the wheels fall off Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. And that's going to happen sooner than later.

 

All of those teams have been successful for an extended period of time because they have had a superstar on their roster for an extended period of time. Almost all of them were a bottom feeder before they acquired the players needed to be a difference maker. It's the same situation with us. As long as Dwight in on this team, we win 50 games a year at least. When he leaves, we will suck out loud. Basketball is a sport dependant on its superstars more than any other sport. Acquiring those superstars isn't easy and it requires a lot of cap flexibility, high draft picks and a little luck. The first two options are typicallly not available to a team that is winning 40 games and getting a 7th seed in the playoffs.

[DanA_TBDP 12]

Dwight is gone. I would love him to stay but he won't commit to staying prior the next season and I'm sure nobody wants The Indecision - Part II.

 

This is the premise I'm using to state what I'm stating, about the need of a culture change.

If you hadn't watched ESPN and if Stan hadn't gone public, how bad was this year? Really?

 

And Satols, Brooks was the 25th pick so I don't know what you're saying there. Lopez is a bad basketball player.

 

Great players (Lebron, Wade, Dwight, Durant) and/or great teams (Heat, Magic, Thunder, Bulls) and/or fun teams to watch (Suns, Nuggets) sell tickets. Teams that run a line-up of Jameer Nelson, Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, Glen Davis, and Brook Lopez with Chris Duhon, Marshon Brooks, and god knows who coming off the bench do not fit into any of those categories. And as emory said, you will have zero cap flexibility, a medium-range draft pick, and let's be honest, only a fool will think that team will ever grow to be more than it is.

 

You don't trade Dwight. If Deron Williams is willing to stay another pathetic year with the Nets waiting for Dwight to come (and he won't, he'll bolt for Dallas if Orlando calls his bluff), you let Dwight leave then, you have 18 million off the books, you have Redick off the books, most of Duhon and Hedo off the books, you try and get a couple picks to fill out your roster and you play a year or two of bad, street-ball ish basketball, get top 3 picks, and do what the Thunder did.

 

People forget the Thunder not too long ago were in a similar situation with rising stars in Lewis and Allen. They let them go, suffered a couple years and kablam. The Cavs will be next. The Nuggets? They are what they are.

[SATOLS 7]

All of the teams teams that you have named except Utah (I have no explanation for how they have managed to stay pretty good even while losing their star players. Of course, they aren't competing for championships either) have risen up to be good teams right at the same time that they acquired star players. Once those star players are gone, the teams will struggle again....

 

You'll have to explain to me what exactly you mean when you say the Spurs have rebuilt around Duncan twice. From what I remember, the Spurs have been truly bad exactly once since they drafted Robinson, the year before they drafted Duncan. Other than that, they have been a model of consistency. Of course, that's probably going to change when the wheels fall off Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. And that's going to happen sooner than later.

 

All of those teams have been successful for an extended period of time because they have had a superstar on their roster for an extended period of time. Almost all of them were a bottom feeder before they acquired the players needed to be a difference maker. It's the same situation with us. As long as Dwight in on this team, we win 50 games a year at least. When he leaves, we will suck out loud. Basketball is a sport dependant on its superstars more than any other sport. Acquiring those superstars isn't easy and it requires a lot of cap flexibility, high draft picks and a little luck. The first two options are typicallly not available to a team that is winning 40 games and getting a 7th seed in the playoffs.

 

Right. And they kept those star players. They did not trade them and start over.

 

The Spurs did not give up on Tim Duncan even when it looked like he might come to Orlando. Yes, the Spurs have been good as long as he's been there. But they were able to find Tony Parker (at No. 28), draft Manu Ginobili (at No. 57). And knowing they had Parker locked up, they traded George Hill to bring in Kawhi Leonard. There were a host of other smart moves.

 

The Lakers did not trade Kobe Bryant when he demanded it a few years ago. They brought in Pau Gasol to help him, by drafting a good pick that was able to attract Memphis' interest.

 

The Celtics did not trade Paul Pierce. They got him help.