A Special 10k Post, Tuesday Edition of Case Of The Mondays: Who is DoM hating now?

[jec 427]

Someone is excited to see some of the most inefficient chuckers in the NBA playing together?

 

They'll be fun in 2K12.

 

Not so much irl.

[kramerthesecond 15]

Monta was pretty efficient back in 08 when Golden State almost won 50 games. Clearly not good enough to do it on his own as showcased the last few years but if a team was set up the right way I don't see how why he can't be a useful piece.

 

and carter was out of his mind efficient two seasons before the magic traded for him. jason richardson too. rashard lewis too. it's obviously easier to succeed as a perimeter chucker without a dominant big man. unlike those guys tho, ellis lacks the range to be successful on this team in the immediate term and that's incredibly obvious.

[FloridianaJones 8]

@kramerthesecond

 

I don't even know where to start with your response. I listed one play, that doesn't mean there is only one play, it means I do not have time to go list out all of his phenomenal plays-like that quick pass(from David lee), 360 reverse layup he did last week... that's talent you can't teach!- if i made a list I'd be an NBA scout, and that I am not.

 

And since were on the subject of scouts, if scouts looked only at 'stats' they would be out of a job. That's plain and simple.

 

And list one player that has improved under Stan... Mmmkay.... Maybe Hedo when he won MIP a few years back. Again I could list more but will spare my time. (and yes we can both agree Hedo is no longer a capable player anymore, so dont even think about bringjng that up, not the point here.)

 

Don't be so standoffish and please stop asking retorical questions, then pausing as if your waiting for my instantaneous response to drop from the heavens so you can then pretend like you threw it back in my face when it didnt magically appear. That's just uncomfortable for us all to read.

 

Sent from my iDevice

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

 

And since were on the subject of scouts, if scouts looked only at 'stats' they would be out of a job. That's plain and simple.

 

 

Except, no one is looking only at stats. There are some people here, not naming names, that would prefer to completely ignore stats because they don't help their position, but apparently that's okay.

[FloridianaJones 8]

Except, no one is looking only at stats. There are some people here, not naming names, that would prefer to completely ignore stats because they don't help their position, but apparently that's okay.

 

Erroneous, I brought up stats in my first post. My argument here is not, 'Ellis is the saving grace, hidden gem in the league waiting to be the next perennial All-Star, part-cornerstone to a NBA franchise.' My argument from the get go, is that saying he flat out 'sucks' based solely on pure shooting statistics is extreme and hasty. As well as taking a lot away from this game that we all love. A game that is based way more on stats, rather chemistry and coaching as well... my case in point, the beauty of the underdog in March Madness.

 

Let's say we had acquired Ellis, my quote was that it would still be a gamble (better than a coin flip, but not a sure thing). Honestly, seeing the kinds of plays he is capable of making - things you can't teach - I personally would take the risk knowing how Stan can be at coaching defense and smart playing. Agree to disagree on that.

 

Again, don't lose my point here on this... saying he 'sucks' by looking at only his pure shooting stats from one stint with one organization/system is hasty. That's all.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Again, don't lose my point here on this... saying he 'sucks' by looking at only his pure shooting stats from one stint with one organization/system is hasty. That's all.

 

Then why are you even posting because this has clearly not happened.

[Levenhagen 16]

Yeah, nice post

 

but that second line is just so unnecessary

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/200/420/BRTky.jpg?1321408042

[BMP 424]

based solely on pure shooting statistics is extreme and hasty.

 

As Captain has pointed out a number of times, just because people mention stats to back up their argument, it doesn't mean they're basing their argument solely on said stats. Most people can watch a few Golden State games and see that most of Ellis' points come from easy fast breaks and the rest come from dumb, off the dribble contested 3s.

 

 

Him having to waste energy on defense and get most of his points from a half court set isn't going to make him any more efficient, and there are a number of things to back this up.

[FloridianaJones 8]

As Captain has pointed out a number of times, just because people mention stats to back up their argument, it doesn't mean they're basing their argument solely on said stats. Most people can watch a few Golden State games and see that most of Ellis' points come from easy fast breaks and the rest come from dumb, off the dribble contested 3s.

 

 

Him having to waste energy on defense and get most of his points from a half court set isn't going to make him any more efficient, and there are a number of things to back this up.

 

 

 

First off, ill take guys who can finish strong in transition all day, he is one of those.

 

Second, I don't see the same thing you do when I watch his play... I see a guy that can attack the paint very well off the dribble, in numerous different game sets and has shown that he can find the open guy with multiple games on his game log with 10+ assists and 16+ games this year with 7 assist or more. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/monta_ellis/game_by_game_stats.html

 

If you look at his biggest issue on his game log, it's the fact that he goes 'cold' shooting the ball (as a reciprocal, he goes OFF some nights with fantastic shooting percentages from behind the arc). If you also look at his stats, the guy has played very inconsistent minutes this year. That is a thing that wouldn't so much happen under Stan once he fit into a role. Not to mention, Stan isn't the kind of coach that puts up with players consistently shooting 'contested 3's' - that would end quickly.

 

could he attempt 14-15 shots a game and still have an effective FG%? no body can answer that because he hasn't played that role yet in his career. thus, tis hasty to toss him in the class of 'sucky' NBA players.

 

5th reiteration of my point, it's not to say he's amazing or All-Star worthy, its to say he doesn't 'suck'. A player that sucks to me is a player that has no possible hope of contributing, much less starting on a championship level team in any way shape or form, ever in his career - and based on Ellis' talent level, the good games I've seen from him and the GREAT plays i've seen him make - I don't think he belongs in that class. And no player for that matter should be tossed into that class based solely on some micro statistics that are accumulated while he played under one, non-championship caliber team, with multiple mediocre coaches, in offensively focused systems.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

And no player for that matter should be tossed into that class based solely on some micro statistics that are accumulated while he played under one, non-championship caliber team, with multiple mediocre coaches, in offensively focused systems.

 

You really don't get it, do you?

[BMP 424]

First off, ill take guys who can finish strong in transition all day, he is one of those.

 

You don't get it. Nearly every single player in this league is more efficient in transition, and Ellis is in a system where he gets to do it nearly every possession. The Magic value defense and half court offense more than running, which means he would get less opportunities in the fast break, which means his efficiency would drop even more.

 

And no player for that matter should be tossed into that class based solely on some micro statistics

 

 

:svgsad:

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

"I don't understand this statistic, therefore I deem it to be without value.

 

Also, I really don't understand what an average is, or how they work."