2009 Magic vs. 2011 Magic ; Who's more potent?

[Skywise316 211]

I'm sorry but the 2009 team would kill this one. Especially the pre-labrum-injury Jameer killin' all sorts of fools version. There was better balance, more team defense, much better rebounding, and they had every bit of the same comeback ability of this year's team. And it's hard to quanitify in stats, but I think the '09 team hit more "big" shots.

 

I just think this is one area where we should give 2009 team their props.

[FlawlessVictory 26]

the Fisher flop from last night was pretty bad. Refs call charges based on their interpretation of the charging rule rather than the situations that the charge rule was instituted for.

 

The charge was created to give defenders a right to the space that they occupy. If an athlete, lets just call him Jabron Lemes, put his head down and steamrolled to the basket, knocking defenders down along the way then that is an offensive foul.

 

defenders searching out players like cruise missiles and positioning themselves in their path to lure them into offensive fouls is disrespecting the game. What Fisher did last night was ridiculous. Dwight wasn't even making an offensive move, trying to gain an advantage, etc. He was running down the court.

 

The refs calling a foul on dwight there is like a cop giving you a speeding ticket for rushing your pregnant wife to the hospital. Sure, a player knocking over another player is a foul, but the rule wasn't put in place so guys can trick opponents into fouls.

Couldn't agree more...

 

 

Not to mention, Paulina G. gave Dwight a little something extra on his way to being Varejo'd by Fisher.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I'm sorry but the 2009 team would kill this one. Especially the pre-labrum-injury Jameer killin' all sorts of fools version. There was better balance, more team defense, much better rebounding, and they had every bit of the same comeback ability of this year's team. And it's hard to quanitify in stats, but I think the '09 team hit more "big" shots.

 

I just think this is one area where we should give 2009 team their props.

 

it's easier to judge that team now that we've had time to digest it. I remember right before the playoffs when everybody was freaking out when we went 4-5 in April. I also remember everyone freaking out when we went 8-6 in February.

 

Not saying i disagree with you, just its tough to properly judge a team in the moment. Especially a team that doesn't lack talent, they're just underperforming.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

defenders searching out players like cruise missiles and positioning themselves in their path to lure them into offensive fouls is disrespecting the game. What Fisher did last night was ridiculous. Dwight wasn't even making an offensive move, trying to gain an advantage, etc. He was running down the court.

 

The refs calling a foul on dwight there is like a cop giving you a speeding ticket for rushing your pregnant wife to the hospital. Sure, a player knocking over another player is a foul, but the rule wasn't put in place so guys can trick opponents into fouls.

 

What Fisher did last night is what Dwight faces all night, every game, and few even acknowledge when discussing how Dwight is played/officiated. Few centers can run the floor with him, so opponents make a collective effort to slow him down in transition by any means necessary. Fisher didn't establish position in front of Dwight by any wild stretch of the imagination on that play, he basically attempted to blind side Dwight w/a forearm shiver, & got run over. And, he did it multiple times over the course of the game.

[cetintas22 52]

I have no doubt from the performance of Jameer, Hedo, Howard, JRich, Bass, Anderson, JJ, Earl for the play offs. They will be great...Arenas and Duhon are still question marks in my mind...But as a result I am 100% sure that our team will not have problems in offense especially in play offs....But the main and only problem will be DEFENSE! 2009 team was really great especially on DEFENSE. This team really can not defend in general. Yes, in some games, somehow they get the inspiration and really make good defense. Some games against BIG TEAMS are good examples for that. But again some games against BIG TEAMS are also reverse, our team played very bad in defense and the opponent team trailed us...

And it is not only Hedo who is poor in defense. Almost everybody in this team does not like to jump or stick to the opponent closely...So, if we manage to start making defense, then I am sure that this team has more potential than 2009 team for Finals...

[Miller4Prez66 545]

it's easier to judge that team now that we've had time to digest it. I remember right before the playoffs when everybody was freaking out when we went 4-5 in April. I also remember everyone freaking out when we went 8-6 in February.

 

Not saying i disagree with you, just its tough to properly judge a team in the moment. Especially a team that doesn't lack talent, they're just underperforming.

 

I don't think the talent on this team meshed as well as the talent on the 2009 squad. We played better team defense in 2009 and everyone just seemed in a better rhythm. Plus in 2009 we had CLee/Pietrus as our primary wing defenders and now we only have Q-Rich as a perimeter defender and he doesn't even get minutes. It's pretty rough relying solely on Dwight for defense because he's the only guy in our rotation who has a reputation for playing good defense, we could still be a great team if we played the team defense needed to win, but so far the pieces haven't fit just yet on that end.

 

So overall, talent wise I don't think we are that off the 2009 squad. But it takes more than talent to win. I'd say last year's team was more talented than the 2009 squad easily, but they lost in the ECF rather than the Finals.

[30Assists 342]

I think we'll be better next year, with Gil having another year heal up and get back in the swing of things. And of course we'll have Prince by then....

 

This year? I think if we can make it past the Celtics, we have at least a shot at getting to the Finals, and getting past the Celtics is at least doable now that they're down to just the geriatric O'Neals.

[cpower 13]

There is a famous Chinese idiom:

Marking the boat for a dropped sword

http://chineseculture.about.com/library/extra/story/blyrh10181999.htm

I am afraid Stan is making that mistake too.

[FlawlessVictory 26]

I have no doubt from the performance of Jameer, Hedo, Howard, JRich, Bass, Anderson, JJ, Earl for the play offs. They will be great...Arenas and Duhon are still question marks in my mind...But as a result I am 100% sure that our team will not have problems in offense especially in play offs....But the main and only problem will be DEFENSE! 2009 team was really great especially on DEFENSE. This team really can not defend in general. Yes, in some games, somehow they get the inspiration and really make good defense. Some games against BIG TEAMS are good examples for that. But again some games against BIG TEAMS are also reverse, our team played very bad in defense and the opponent team trailed us...

And it is not only Hedo who is poor in defense. Almost everybody in this team does not like to jump or stick to the opponent closely...So, if we manage to start making defense, then I am sure that this team has more potential than 2009 team for Finals...

Yeah, we need to make better in defense!

[Skywise316 211]

it's easier to judge that team now that we've had time to digest it. I remember right before the playoffs when everybody was freaking out when we went 4-5 in April. I also remember everyone freaking out when we went 8-6 in February.

 

Not saying i disagree with you, just its tough to properly judge a team in the moment. Especially a team that doesn't lack talent, they're just underperforming.

 

I agree with your sentiment on that. This year's team hasn't had a chance to succeed or fail in the playoffs yet, either way.

 

I've read the rest of this thread and I agree with Miller that basically the talent has all been similar the last three years, but in '08-'09 the pieces just FIT better.

[magicfan83 23]

I agree with your sentiment on that. This year's team hasn't had a chance to succeed or fail in the playoffs yet, either way.

 

I've read the rest of this thread and I agree with Miller that basically the talent has all been similar the last three years, but in '08-'09 the pieces just FIT better.

 

There is a lot to be said about this. The 2009 team had better chemistry and a better sense of their roles on the team. They had better focus, were better defenders, better rebounders and were more confident in themselves. There were bad stretches, sure, but that team won 59 games in the regular season. Lets not act like this team is going to get even close to 59 wins. This team may not even grab home court in the first round and hasn't done much to show that they are any better than Atlanta. Any assumptions that we will beat them easily are based on the results of the last 2 years, and by the way this team is SIGNIFICANTLY different than those two teams.

 

Talent wise, it really is hard to say that this team is much better than 08-09. Dwight is significantly better offensively, but for the most part since the trades has lost a good part of his defensive aggression. He's been better about it lately, but let's be honest: in 2009 there is absolutely NO WAY that Dwight concedes that lay up 10 seconds left in OT. Outside of Dwight, no one is playing at the level Rashard did in 2009 or Jameer for that matter. Turk has fallen off every bit as much as Dwight has improved. Our bench is better, marginally. Gilbert really isn't playing that much better than AJ was, and atleast AJ could sink an open 3. We've gotten better production offensively from Ryan and Bass than we have from Battie, but they are no where near the defender that Batman was. Losing Gortat and Pietrus is absolutely killer. JJ has gotten a lot better so that helps.

 

Overall, this team is better at starting C, backup 4, starting SG and backup SG, and backup PG. We are significantly worse at starting 4, starting 3, backup 3/2, backup C, and slightly worse at starting PG (atleast the first half of that season). I'm really not sure that equates to this team being more talented than 2009. I'm also pretty sure that 2009 with its chemistry and mentality would crush this team in 5 games.

[Optimist Prime 197]

"Talent wise, it really is hard to say that this team is much better than 08-09. Dwight is significantly better offensively, but for the most part since the trades has lost a good part of his defensive aggression. He's been better about it lately, but let's be honest: in 2009 there is absolutely NO WAY that Dwight concedes that lay up 10 seconds left in OT."

 

"Overall, this team is better at starting C, backup 4, starting SG and backup SG, and backup PG. We are significantly worse at starting 4, starting 3, backup 3/2, backup C, and slightly worse at starting PG (atleast the first half of that season). I'm really not sure that equates to this team being more talented than 2009. I'm also pretty sure that 2009 with its chemistry and mentality would crush this team in 5 games."

 

Firstly, I would say that if Dwight wanted to be as aggressive as you seem to want, he would foul out at the end of the 3rd Quarter. He is playing MUCH better defense in that he is a lot SMARTER on when he goes up for a block and how he uses his body to disrupt shots with out picking up dumb fouls.

 

I agree with you that our backups need some work, but Lewis lost all hope of going to be back to his 2009 self last year's playoffs, and I think Q will prove him self to be a great defensive pickup in the playoffs. (and one who can actually hit an outside shot, unlike Barnes). Also, keep in mind that the 2009 team that got to the Finals did so with Rafer at point, not Jameer. So using early 2009 Jameer to rate the team against isn't really fair. Yes, Jameer was BALLIN back then and isn't where he was, but he is also much better than Rafer "Hot or Not" Alston. I say we still need to wait it out and see how the team responds in the playoffs.