Has SVG failed the Magic? OR Management? OR players?

[BMP 424]

The Magic have been doubling PFs in the post more than I've ever seen, and against teams with good ball movement it's leading to late rotations, lazy closeouts, and perimeter players going off. KITNO's point is that if the Magic had the personnel not to need to double every time a PF touches the ball, our perimeter defense wouldn't be as compromised as it has been lately

[Babir_9 95]

Grizzlies

Mike Conely: 26 pts on 64% // Sam Young: 10 pts on 55%

 

Heat

Lebron James: 51 pts on 68% // Dwayne Wade: 14 pts on 41%

 

Wizards

John Wall: 14 pts on 41% // Nick Young: 20 pts on 35%

 

Celtics

Rajon Rondo: 26 pts on 60% // Ray Allen: 11 pts on 44%

 

Clippers

Baron Davis: 25 pts on 50% // Randy Foye: 7 pts on 13%

 

Sixers

Jodie Meeks: 17 pts on 38% // Iggy: 21 pts on 53%

 

Hornets

Chris Paul: 15 pts on 36% // Green: 24 pts on 50 %

 

also that game we lost in overtime in New Orleans, Thornton had a huge game. The game we lost by 3 in Boston. Celtics' FG% was almost 60%. Game in Oklahoma, Westbrook had ridiculous stats, Durant too...

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

The Magic have been doubling PFs in the post more than I've ever seen, and against teams with good ball movement it's leading to late rotations, lazy closeouts, and perimeter players going off. KITNO's point is that if the Magic had the personnel not to need to double every time a PF touches the ball, our perimeter defense wouldn't be as compromised as it has been lately

 

I realize exactly what point he is trying to make, I'm just saying his point is wrong. Bad rotations don't lead to point gaurds consistently breaking down the perimeter and getting inside. Look at the stats I just posted, I'm sorry you can't blame that on bad rotations. And even if that WERE the case then clearly they need to stop doubling powerforwards and let them handle it themselves. I'd rather let one post guy go off then the entire perimeter.

[Babir_9 95]

we are not doubling only PFs, we pretty much doubling everyone...How many times opponents PG is driving and finding an open shooters in the corners for wide open shots? Same with SFs and SGs, whoever is driving, our players helping, leaving their players wide open....

[BMP 424]

Grizzlies

Mike Conely: 26 pts on 64% // Sam Young: 10 pts on 55%

 

Heat

Lebron James: 51 pts on 68% // Dwayne Wade: 14 pts on 41%

 

Wizards

John Wall: 14 pts on 41% // Nick Young: 20 pts on 35%

 

Celtics

Rajon Rondo: 26 pts on 60% // Ray Allen: 11 pts on 44%

 

Clippers

Baron Davis: 25 pts on 50% // Randy Foye: 7 pts on 13%

 

Sixers

Jodie Meeks: 17 pts on 38% // Iggy: 21 pts on 53%

 

Hornets

Chris Paul: 15 pts on 36% // Green: 24 pts on 50 %

 

 

Crossed out the ones that didn't have a good game. Left with Rondo, Davis, Iggy, Green, Conley, and LeBron

 

Rondo, Davis, LeBron, and Iggy are the only ones I can agree with breaking down the defense

 

Conley and Green were both a product of wide open shooting. Neither of them can really break down a defense and most of their points came from plays ran for them or wide open shots from double teams.

 

LeBron. . . well, I can't even blame perimeter defense that much. The guy made jumpers like he was a wide open Reggie Miller. He had maybe one or two layups in the entire 1st half.

 

 

Rondo and Davis are different. Both very good at getting in the paint and Nelson and Arenas both aren't very good at keeping them out. Davis was able to capitalize that game by making jumpers he hadn't made all season. Iggy. . . well, Hedo was guarding him.

 

 

 

 

Notice the games Rondo, Davis, LeBron, Iggy, Green, and Conley scored well. Their PFs? KG, Griffin, Bosh, Brand, DWest, and ZBo. Out of those, I'd say Bosh and Brand were the only ones the Magic weren't trying to double consistently.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if Stan sees a legimtate threat in letting Anderson/Bass guard these PFs one on one or if he's just trying incorporate a new defensive strategy that the team may use every once in awhile (instead of nearly every single possession), so I can't say whether or not they should stop doing it. If Stan is just doing it because of lack of confidence, then perhaps it is time to stop it and try 1 on 1, but if he's doing it to get the team used to doing both, then I can see where he is going with it. Sacrificing a few regular season wins for a more improved and versatile playoff team isn't such a bad tradeoff.

 

To say that doubling in the post has nothing to do with with perimeter players going off seems a bit naive, especially when rooting for a team that has relied heavily on a certain post player being doubled in order to get its perimeter players going.

[Babir_9 95]

what about our offense? Everyone is complaining that the defense is not good but our offense is horrible. Too many turnovers, bad posessions, poor free throw shooting, field goal %, ball movement, passing. Players look tired out there, no energy and passion...

[Shock Phantom 263]

what about our offense? Everyone is complaining that the defense is not good but our offense is horrible. Too many turnovers, bad posessions, poor free throw shooting, field goal %, ball movement, passing. Players look tired out there, no energy and passion...

I kind of agree. It seems like our defense has gotten better, but then our offense took a step back.

[Babir_9 95]

Rik Adelman's contract with the Rockets expires after this season....

[BMP 424]

I kind of agree. It seems like our defense has gotten better, but then our offense took a step back.

 

The offense generally comes around when they play defense. Force some bad bricks, grab long rebounds, and run. . . the problem is when the team plays no defense and gives up easy baskets, leading to half-assed half-court execution. Some plays the players don't even look like they're trying to set screens or actually come off screens with any authority. Not sure if they're disheartened because of bad defense or just plain bored. . .

 

 

The Magic had the 2nd best offense only behind Phoenix last year. . . #10 this year. You can attribute that to chemistry issues in the coming and going of players but I also think there's a legitimate issue within the players themselves. It seems that the team always finds a way to revert to swinging the ball around the perimeter and jacking up bricks mode, when that's never what the offense was about.

 

As a few people have mentioned, 3pt shots should only be going up if they have come from drive and kicks or Dwight passing out of a double team. There's nothing more infuriating than completely killing the system by swinging it around the perimeter without any penetration or kick out from inside. The only two instances I see this as being okay is when the player is not in a position to pass it to Dwight and he's yelling shoot because he's near a 3 second call, and when the player is just wide open.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

To say that the 4 position is the biggest liability on defense on the Magic is laughable at best and insanity at worst, especially when you look at what perimeter players have done off the dribble to us in recent games.

 

Now you can try to say that all of those perimeter players (with the exception of Randy Foye) having strong double digit scoring nights on solid shooting is really all the powerforwards fault but then your pretty much showing how little you know about basketball. Dwight has to shade those players too and yet they are still scoring.

 

So I repeat what I said. The power forward is fine and dandy. The perimeter is the problem.

 

I think you could make a pretty sound argument no position is a bigger liability on the defensive end for the Magic and that's saying a mouthful. The consistent need to double opposing 4's completely compromises the integrity of the Magic's D and it only goes downhill from there.

 

Your reading comprehension is off the charts terrible. The point is everybody on this team outside of Dwight is a defensive liability, its silly to suggest otherwise, and it's just plain ignorant to give 4's credit defensively because Dwights doubling their man on every freakin possession. But while other players get broken down on the perimeter, the need to double automatically puts the rest of the D in a 3 vs. 4 situation, and no other position automatically compromises the entire D in that manner.

 

I realize exactly what point he is trying to make, I'm just saying his point is wrong. Bad rotations don't lead to point gaurds consistently breaking down the perimeter and getting inside. Look at the stats I just posted, I'm sorry you can't blame that on bad rotations. And even if that WERE the case then clearly they need to stop doubling powerforwards and let them handle it themselves. I'd rather let one post guy go off then the entire perimeter.

 

It has nothing to do with BAD rotations. The Magic are choosing to sacrifice "open" shots to certain players. Dwight doubling forces wing to rotate down, which forces other perimeter defenders to rotate over, and leaves wide open J's on the weak side. That's arguably more effective than allowing West to annihilate RA or Clark or Z-Bo to annihilate Bass or RA in the post when Ariza goes 3-17 or whatever he went from the field, & the nobody on the Clippers can knock down a shot other than Barron Davis with Gordon out. Not so effective when Willie Green, Mike Conley, & Rondo knock down wide open shots.

 

Dwight isn't just shading 4's the way he shades on perimeter help, he's often on the opposite side of the lane before an entry pass is even made. Which again, puts the rest of the D in an exploitable 3 vs. 4 while cross matched all over the place. Tell me how often the Magic have done that the past 3 years.

[ThisIsTheYear 241]

We're doubling opposing PFs, partly, because we can. You said it yourself, everyone in our starting lineup sans Dwight is a liability on the defensive end. The difference, obviously, is that a perimeter player is far more likely to make you pay by doubling him than a PF who is, more likely than not, a poor/mediocre passer.

 

Our perimeter defense has lead to far more breakdowns than this doubling strategy. The fact that we can't keep ANYONE in front of us presents a far more critical problem than any other defensive deficiency's we may have.

[molecman2003 4]

It has nothing to do with BAD rotations. The Magic are choosing to sacrifice "open" shots to certain players. Dwight doubling forces wing to rotate down, which forces other perimeter defenders to rotate over, and leaves wide open J's on the weak side. That's arguably more effective than allowing West to annihilate RA or Clark or Z-Bo to annihilate Bass or RA in the post when Ariza goes 3-17 or whatever he went from the field, & the nobody on the Clippers can knock down a shot other than Barron Davis with Gordon out. Not so effective when Willie Green, Mike Conley, & Rondo knock down wide open shots.

 

Dwight isn't just shading 4's the way he shades on perimeter help, he's often on the opposite side of the lane before an entry pass is even made. Which again, puts the rest of the D in an exploitable 3 vs. 4 while cross matched all over the place. Tell me how often the Magic have done that the past 3 years.

 

The breakdown in perimeter defense as related to penetration into the lane also effects the ability of our PFs and Centers to effectively box out for rebounds because they are too busy rotating out of rebounding position. And this has added to easy put-backs by opposing bigs. Our defensive rebounding (outside of D12) has been atrocious lately, and I'm not talking about long rebounds.

 

On another note: RA is a good offensive rebounder, but he gets beat a lot on the defensive glass because he gets out of position. While Bass gets beat from time to time it is nowhere near as often as RA.