Congrats to Marcin Gortat

[The Ryan Anderbads 27]

No. Gortat at the four is just awful for this team. He isn't quick enough to defend quicker fours, and he doesn't stretch the floor enough for Dwight.

 

Gortat was never going to thrive here. Otis matched Dallas' offer sheet for him because he didn't want to lose a young seven footer and get no value out of him. Gortat has been available for a while now, Otis was just waiting for the right move. He really didn't help us much against Boston last year, and probably wasn't this year.

 

I'm happy for him anyways, he's getting a chance to shine in Phoenix. Not sure why Gentry just won't start him, but he's getting starters minutes anyways.

 

It would have been interesting to see Dwight at PF and Gort at C. That way Dwight can guard the athletic bigs and Gortat can guard the non-athletic C's. It's all in the past now though.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Unfortunately, I haven't seen this organization address the weaknesses it's had in the playoffs under SVG while thrusting 3 players who've proven limited in the playoffs into primary roles. Whether or not the twin towers was part of the solution to address that is debatable, but I felt it warranted more than a cursery experiment.

 

Playoff Weaknesses 2010:

 

First two series not worth looking in to.

 

Boston game 1: 18 turnovers (7 from Dwight). Dwight not being able to go 1 on 1 (shoots 3-10 from the field). Poor three point shooting. Lewis/Barnes/Pietrus provide little to support Nelson/Carter in scoring. only 88 points

 

Boston game 2: Poor rebounding from Lewis/Carter/Dwight. Turnover #'s only mediocre (14). Poor game from point guards. Poor game from Carter. Lewis/Barnes/Pietrus provide little offense. Only 92 points scored.

 

Boston game 3: Poor game from Carter/Nelson/Dwight. Bench other than JJ and Pietrus was horrible. Barnes/Lewis provide next to 0 offense. too many turnovers. Only 71 points scored.

 

Boston game 4: Terrible game by carter. Mediocre offense from barnes/lewis enough to support dwight and jameer. Nelson too many turnovers. Backup point guard nonexistent. Too many turnovers.

 

Boston game 5: Carter Terrible. Barnes/Lewis efficient enough to support Dwight/Nelson/Bench offensively. Dwight 4 Turnovers.

 

Boston game 6: Carter scores but inefficiently. Nelson bad game poor shooting and 5 tos. Lewis/barnes nonexistent offensively. Only score 84 points. Poor three point shooting.

 

Common themes

 

Lewis/Barnes/Pietrus/Carter inefficient/nonexistent offensively. Nelson too many turnovers. Dwight poor offense/too many turnovers. Poor bench scoring other than JJ. Jwill only scoring 18 points combined in the 6 games.

 

Magic moves during offseason and trades: Get rid of Lewis/Barnes/Pietrus/Carter. Get ball handling support for Nelson so he can take a step further toward his strengths (shooting) instead of literally being the only capable distributor on the team (Hedo). Dwight improving offensively. Bench scoring improving naturally (JJ/Ryan) and through transactions (Q-rich/Arenas). Have Hedo/Jrich take over the Carter role of late game hero. Improve streaky three point shooting by bringing in guys who have career three point shooting numbers of 35.4% (43.1% in his last 10 playoff games Arenas) 37.2% (42.1% in the playoffs Jason Richardson) 35.7 (39.4 in the playoffs Q-Rich) 38.4% (38.6% during our finals run Hedo). Get rid of old legs Jwill/AJ for young Arenas/Duhon.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't seen this organization address the weaknesses it's had in the playoffs under SVG while thrusting 3 players who've proven limited in the playoffs into primary roles.

 

Three players who've proven limited in the playoffs into primary roles? Who? Hedo who we've already had quite a bit of playoff success with? Jason Richardson who was the second or third option during the Golden State series where they beat a 67 win #1 seed? When he stepped his game up and averaged 19.1 ppg on 48% shooting? Or the guy last year who was the primary perimeter scorer on a western conference finals team. The guy who put up 42 points, 29 points, and 28 points in three of their first round wins; 27 and 21 points in two games in a sweep of the spurs; or the guy who managed to hit 14 of 35 threes and average 16 points in 6 games on 48.6% shooting against the nba champion lakers? Arenas who goes from being a franchise player to a 6th man? The Guy who when last healthy opened the playoff series against the Cavs by putting up 24 points in 27 minutes despite only playing in 12 games that season and only 5 games in april due to a knee injury?

 

Weaknesses: Scoring

 

Moves: Add as many scorers as we can fit into the rotation.

 

What are these weaknesses that we didn't address? Rebounding?

 

We had 8 more offensive rebounds and 7 more total rebounds than boston in game 1. Game two they outrebounded us by 2. Game 3 they outrebounded us by 7. Game 4 they outrebounded us by 4. Game 5 they outrebounded us by 4. We won by 4. Game 5 we outrebounded them by 17. we won by 21. Game 6 they outrebounded us by 10.

 

Last year we were the 25th best offensive rebound% team and the #1 defensive rebound % team. This year we're the 21st best offensive rebound % team and the #1 defensive rebound % team.

 

You know what would help us with rebounding? Not shooting 41.6%, 39%, 37%, and 43% in losses.

 

What other weakness? Defense? That can't be it as Boston never scored above 96 points. Our post defense was pretty good as Garnett, Perkins, and Glen Davis never really killed us (except Davis in game 3). Their best big man is no longer on the team. Their best offensive guys were Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and three of the guys tasked with defending them Carter/Barnes/Pietrus aren't on the team.

 

Still, if we have competent offense and can score in the mid 90's we probably win game 1 and game 2. Carter doesn't brick two free throws and we score more than 2 points in the last 3 1/2 minutes and we definitely win game 2.

 

So really. What are you talking about? Or do you just want to look for problems like you've done countless times before.

 

Playoff weaknesses? Scoring! When you hold your opponent to 93ppg during the first three games and you only score 84 ppg your problem is scoring. During the finals when you only score 75, 96 (in overtime), 91, and 86 points in losses than your problem is scoring. 07-08 we only score 72, 93, 89, and 86 points in losses to the Pistons. What is the problem? Scoring! What did we do? Get rid of the players who don't score. Insert players that have a history of scoring. Weakness addressed!

[KandiKane 136]

Playoff Weaknesses 2010:

 

First two series not worth looking in to.

 

Boston game 1: 18 turnovers (7 from Dwight). Dwight not being able to go 1 on 1 (shoots 3-10 from the field). Poor three point shooting. Lewis/Barnes/Pietrus provide little to support Nelson/Carter in scoring. only 88 points

 

Boston game 2: Poor rebounding from Lewis/Carter/Dwight. Turnover #'s only mediocre (14). Poor game from point guards. Poor game from Carter. Lewis/Barnes/Pietrus provide little offense. Only 92 points scored.

 

Boston game 3: Poor game from Carter/Nelson/Dwight. Bench other than JJ and Pietrus was horrible. Barnes/Lewis provide next to 0 offense. too many turnovers. Only 71 points scored.

 

Boston game 4: Terrible game by carter. Mediocre offense from barnes/lewis enough to support dwight and jameer. Nelson too many turnovers. Backup point guard nonexistent. Too many turnovers.

 

Boston game 5: Carter Terrible. Barnes/Lewis efficient enough to support Dwight/Nelson/Bench offensively. Dwight 4 Turnovers.

 

Boston game 6: Carter scores but inefficiently. Nelson bad game poor shooting and 5 tos. Lewis/barnes nonexistent offensively. Only score 84 points. Poor three point shooting.

 

Common themes

 

Lewis/Barnes/Pietrus/Carter inefficient/nonexistent offensively. Nelson too many turnovers. Dwight poor offense/too many turnovers. Poor bench scoring other than JJ. Jwill only scoring 18 points combined in the 6 games.

 

Magic moves during offseason and trades: Get rid of Lewis/Barnes/Pietrus/Carter. Get ball handling support for Nelson so he can take a step further toward his strengths (shooting) instead of literally being the only capable distributor on the team (Hedo). Dwight improving offensively. Bench scoring improving naturally (JJ/Ryan) and through transactions (Q-rich/Arenas). Have Hedo/Jrich take over the Carter role of late game hero. Improve streaky three point shooting by bringing in guys who have career three point shooting numbers of 35.4% (43.1% in his last 10 playoff games Arenas) 37.2% (42.1% in the playoffs Jason Richardson) 35.7 (39.4 in the playoffs Q-Rich) 38.4% (38.6% during our finals run Hedo). Get rid of old legs Jwill/AJ for young Arenas/Duhon.

 

 

 

Three players who've proven limited in the playoffs into primary roles? Who? Hedo who we've already had quite a bit of playoff success with? Jason Richardson who was the second or third option during the Golden State series where they beat a 67 win #1 seed? When he stepped his game up and averaged 19.1 ppg on 48% shooting? Or the guy last year who was the primary perimeter scorer on a western conference finals team. The guy who put up 42 points, 29 points, and 28 points in three of their first round wins; 27 and 21 points in two games in a sweep of the spurs; or the guy who managed to hit 14 of 35 threes and average 16 points in 6 games on 48.6% shooting against the nba champion lakers? Arenas who goes from being a franchise player to a 6th man? The Guy who when last healthy opened the playoff series against the Cavs by putting up 24 points in 27 minutes despite only playing in 12 games that season and only 5 games in april due to a knee injury?

 

Weaknesses: Scoring

 

Moves: Add as many scorers as we can fit into the rotation.

 

What are these weaknesses that we didn't address? Rebounding?

 

We had 8 more offensive rebounds and 7 more total rebounds than boston in game 1. Game two they outrebounded us by 2. Game 3 they outrebounded us by 7. Game 4 they outrebounded us by 4. Game 5 they outrebounded us by 4. We won by 4. Game 5 we outrebounded them by 17. we won by 21. Game 6 they outrebounded us by 10.

 

Last year we were the 25th best offensive rebound% team and the #1 defensive rebound % team. This year we're the 21st best offensive rebound % team and the #1 defensive rebound % team.

 

You know what would help us with rebounding? Not shooting 41.6%, 39%, 37%, and 43% in losses.

 

What other weakness? Defense? That can't be it as Boston never scored above 96 points. Our post defense was pretty good as Garnett, Perkins, and Glen Davis never really killed us (except Davis in game 3). Their best big man is no longer on the team. Their best offensive guys were Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and three of the guys tasked with defending them Carter/Barnes/Pietrus aren't on the team.

 

Still, if we have competent offense and can score in the mid 90's we probably win game 1 and game 2. Carter doesn't brick two free throws and we score more than 2 points in the last 3 1/2 minutes and we definitely win game 2.

 

So really. What are you talking about? Or do you just want to look for problems like you've done countless times before.

 

Playoff weaknesses? Scoring! When you hold your opponent to 93ppg during the first three games and you only score 84 ppg your problem is scoring. During the finals when you only score 75, 96 (in overtime), 91, and 86 points in losses than your problem is scoring. 07-08 we only score 72, 93, 89, and 86 points in losses to the Pistons. What is the problem? Scoring! What did we do? Get rid of the players who don't score. Insert players that have a history of scoring. Weakness addressed!

 

I have enjoyed and agreed with you posts the last two days, you must have had some free time.... they have been as huge as Gortats boxscoress

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I have enjoyed and agreed with you posts the last two days, you must have had some free time.... they have been as huge as Gortats boxscoress

 

procrastination

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

Scoring...My answer is broader than that, but I'll work backwards from your diatribe because I don't see the solution you do & I think it's a result of confusing shooters with scorers & play makers.

 

I still see the offense bog down when teams defend Dwight 1 on 1 and defend the perimeter. That's because this team still lacks anybody who can create their own shot and still hasn't diversified the play book to create shot opportunities for shooters. Same issue this teams had, same issue it continues to have. Improved spot up shooters still need somebody to break down the D and get them the ball. Part of Orlando's problem has been scoring, but THE problem this team runs into offensively is creating open shots, not an inability to knock down open shots.

 

Insert Hedo the play maker as a solution? That would require me to look past the difficulties he's had vs. tough perimeter defenders like Pierce, Iguodala, Ariza, & Deng. Only thing that's improved imo is Dwights ability to exploit single coverage.

 

I think J-Rich's stats epitomize the system part of this equation. J-Rich played off the ball in Pheonix, played off the ball in GS, plays off the ball in Orlando. No change. Difference, with Orando, he's relagated to standing behind the 3 point line in the half court. For the first time in his career, he's shooting over half his shots from 3, sound familiar? If Orlando can't break the D down by posting Dwight or running pick-n-roll, they are still stuck, and unable to create shots for this bevy of shooters.

 

There's a flip side to this weakness and it's individual perimeter defense. Claiming defense wasn't an issue against Boston because they didn't score over 96 in the series ignores Boston playoff norms. Boston methodically takes Orlando apart offensively by creating & exploiting mismatches, just as Detroit used to. Orlando's weak perimeter defenders, their lack of perimeter versatility, and the lack of help D from anybody other than Dwight get exploited by such teams. This, was not improved by the trades, this was made worse, across the board. Weaker perimeter D, less versatility, less help.

 

The other part of this equation, Orlando is exploitable physically. Was against Boston, was against LA, was against Detroit, will still be by the elite teams. That manifests itself at times on offense, defense, and/or on the glass. The trades have not made Orlando tougher or more physical and pertinent to this thread, Gortat gave Orlando an option to become a bigger, more physical team, as well as provide a screen setter if SVG ever diversified the offense & secondary help defender.

 

3 players who've proven limited vs. playoff caliber competition: Hedo, JJ, & RA

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Scoring...My answer is broader than that, but I'll work backwards from your diatribe because I don't see the solution you do & I think it's a result of confusing shooters with scorers & play makers.

 

I still see the offense bog down when teams defend Dwight 1 on 1 and defend the perimeter. That's because this team still lacks anybody who can create their own shot and still hasn't diversified the play book to create shot opportunities for shooters. Same issue this teams had, same issue it continues to have. Improved spot up shooters still need somebody to break down the D and get them the ball. Part of Orlando's problem has been scoring, but THE problem this team runs into offensively is creating open shots, not an inability to knock down open shots.

 

Insert Hedo the play maker as a solution? That would require me to look past the difficulties he's had vs. tough perimeter defenders like Pierce, Iguodala, Ariza, & Deng. Only thing that's improved imo is Dwights ability to exploit single coverage.

 

I think J-Rich's stats epitomize the system part of this equation. J-Rich played off the ball in Pheonix, played off the ball in GS, plays off the ball in Orlando. No change. Difference, with Orando, he's relagated to standing behind the 3 point line in the half court. For the first time in his career, he's shooting over half his shots from 3, sound familiar? If Orlando can't break the D down by posting Dwight or running pick-n-roll, they are still stuck, and unable to create shots for this bevy of shooters.

 

There's a flip side to this weakness and it's individual perimeter defense. Claiming defense wasn't an issue against Boston because they didn't score over 96 in the series ignores Boston playoff norms. Boston methodically takes Orlando apart offensively by creating & exploiting mismatches, just as Detroit used to. Orlando's weak perimeter defenders, their lack of perimeter versatility, and the lack of help D from anybody other than Dwight get exploited by such teams. This, was not improved by the trades, this was made worse, across the board. Weaker perimeter D, less versatility, less help.

 

The other part of this equation, Orlando is exploitable physically. Was against Boston, was against LA, was against Detroit, will still be by the elite teams. That manifests itself at times on offense, defense, and/or on the glass. The trades have not made Orlando tougher or more physical and pertinent to this thread, Gortat gave Orlando an option to become a bigger, more physical team, as well as provide a screen setter if SVG ever diversified the offense & secondary help defender.

 

3 players who've proven limited vs. playoff caliber competition: Hedo, JJ, & RA

 

I agree with a lot of this. I like this team offensively better than last season's. I figure that a lot of our problem last year was teams, or specifically boston, was generally able to pick a player to give more of an open look to. When we run our offense, such as a jameer/dwight pick and roll, the defense must collapse a little bit in order to help. A lot of the help last year came from Pierce who was defending Barnes. It's no coincidence that the games we won had Barnes as an efficient offensive contributor.

 

I think we all want a shot creating player but those guys aren't on the market at a price that makes sense for our team. Arenas could be a shot creator for himself but there's too much working against him to set that as a rational expectation at this point. Regardless, I think Otis had "shot creating" potential in mind when he took the risk to trade for him. We'll find out in may if he was correct in bringing him aboard or if his friendship clouded his judgment on this one. I just can't fault management for not finding a shot creating player as they're almost exclusively drafted by teams in the top 10.

 

Who are the shot creating players right now? I think they sort of fit into two categories for perimeter players. The first category are the "franchise players". The guys who can score at will every night. (Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Pierce, Rose, Deron Williams, Dirk, and I guess Nash has shown he can be one of these guys in the playoffs but he might float between the two) The other category is maybe all star players who can lead a team in scoring but you can't count on them to carry the load against elite defensive teams (Eric Gordon, Monta, Kevin Martin, Granger, Gay, Allen, probably Westbrook and at times Ginobili and Steven Jackson). I probably left some names out but I think my point's been made. I don't think any of these guys were on the market. Maybe Kevin Martin but Morey wouldn't kill his rebuilding plans for the package we were offering.

 

Instead we decided we're going to load up on as many fringe players as we can get our hands on. (Hedo, JRich, Arenas [assumes health]), (Nelson), (JJ, and Anderson) have all shown they are able to be great 2nd option; 3rd option; and 6th man type of players respectively. If we can't get a top level guy we're going to get as many offensive threats as we can on the court at one time. We use ball movement to create for us. We have spacing now and, as cliche as it sounds, a more mentally tough team. I think Carter did a lot of damage to our team's behavior. We're counting on players to carry the perimeter scoring role for singular games. If Dwight can be Dwight and one of the previously mentioned wings can step up then I think we're in a great position.

 

We at least know we can reach the finals with a Hedo/stretch 4/dwight/marksman shooting guard lineup. I just hope that our rotation guys are able to play at a comparable level in the playoffs as they have during the regular season.

 

Anyways, eventually we're going to find an exploitable option on offense.

 

I understand boston's style of play is to grind out wins but our team can't be built to play 2005 era Detroit Pistons "hold the team to 85 points" type of style. We have "Ben Wallace" on at the center but we're missing the other four guys. It's difficult to find a tall point guard who's a legitimate scorer and distributor, a lanky off ball sg, an extremely lanky SF who can be a primary defensive perimeter stopper, and another great post defender (not to mention all of the blue collar types on the bench). If I could built a team from scratch I'd take Westbrook, Wes Matthews, Nicolas Batum, Kevin Love or Josh Smith, and Dwight. I'd stack the bench with a bunch of multi positional guys who could plug into the roster at will.

 

Our team was built around Dwight and Jameer (essentially because he was the best guy available and shows great leadership). Then we picked up other guys who made sense at the time. Every year we have a core group of guys that we need to compliment with players that make sense. I'd love to have a fantasy draft but it doesn't make sense in the realm of GM's

 

laptop dieing... finish later

[Live or Die Magic 383]

The day we matched Dallas's offer sheet for Gortat, it started the countdown clock for him to be traded to fill another hole in our roster. It just became a matter of when and for whom he was traded, not if.

 

Still, I too am glad to see him getting quality minutes in Phoenix. No offense to Lopez, but the Warlock is the better player in Phoenix. He has great hands to catch those passes from Nash.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

So really. What are you talking about? Or do you just want to look for problems like you've done countless times before.

 

I agree with a lot of this.

 

I forgot its impossible to be critical of this team without being a hater & suggesting the team or a specific player isn't perfect is an obvious implication it/they completely sux. But, occassionally, when you actually engage in dialog before jumping to conclusions, apparently there's potential for common ground or at a minimum rational conversation, and you'll discover I'm simply discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the team or player.

 

I think we all want a shot creating player but those guys aren't on the market at a price that makes sense for our team.

 

Not everything has to be addressed with extremes and the point I think you're missing is that simple diversity of the play book would go a long way in unlocking untapped potential among the player who have been or are on the roster.

 

It would be ideal to have a premier scorer and/or play maker to compliment Dwight and the perimeter shooters, but they don't grow on tree's, and this team could get by simply with more options. Contrary to popular belief, I do acknowledge the obvious, this team is pretty good as is, but it needs to address the limitations of the two pronged offense. That can be as simple as two years ago using Rashard in the post against Thad Young & Big Baby when Orlando bogged down in the playoffs. It could have been as easy as matching up Shard with Pierce and wearing him out in the post last season. It could be as simple as having AnderBass used in the post more & running JRich & JJ off more screens. Beyond the intended targets of player movement, player movement creates seams and counter plays that can be exploit the defense.

 

Countless teams have mediocre, marginal, or decent players capable of creating off the bounce, in the post, or shooting off movement that aren't primary scorers.

 

Prime example, Boston. Off their bench, they've had Eddie House & Nate Robinson. They aren't premier players or primary scorers. But, House was a guy they could run ragged off screens when they needed offense, Robinson is a guy they give the ball to and say go get some. Has Orlando had that type of player? Are those type of players hard to come by? Or you could go the Laker route and have an offense that creates shots for marginal players like Shannon Brown off the bounce. Those type of options have existed on this roster, do exist on the roster, & are easily obtainable outside of this roster.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

I understand boston's style of play is to grind out wins but our team can't be built to play 2005 era Detroit Pistons "hold the team to 85 points" type of style. We have "Ben Wallace" on at the center but we're missing the other four guys. It's difficult to find a tall point guard who's a legitimate scorer and distributor, a lanky off ball sg, an extremely lanky SF who can be a primary defensive perimeter stopper, and another great post defender (not to mention all of the blue collar types on the bench). If I could built a team from scratch I'd take Westbrook, Wes Matthews, Nicolas Batum, Kevin Love or Josh Smith, and Dwight. I'd stack the bench with a bunch of multi positional guys who could plug into the roster at will.

 

 

I found this curious & forgot to ask. First, I completely disagree w/bolded part. Orlando is missing these type players today, it wasn't at the turning point in this franchise. 2nd, why would you need Tayshaun, Rip, & Billups clones in order to build a dominant defensive team to compliment the most dominant defensive player in the game? Personally, I would have built a more athletic team around Dwight than Detroit had and looked to fast break more than Detroit ever thought about.

 

Simple version: Long, athletic, tough on the ball defenders who run the floor on the perimeter. Defenders, rebounders, shot blockers partnering w/Dwight in front court. Result, ferocious defensive team that suffocates offenses, forces turnovers, runs the floor, and annihilates opponents on the glass.

 

How: I'm on record with this at the time, but this is likely the gist of it, Gerald Wallace & Mickael Pietrus instead of Shard. Darko Milicic & Trevor Ariza stayed. Hedo flipped 4 similiar talent, better fit, I think at time Maggette pre bloated contract was an option. Defensive PG to compliment Meer. Moving forward, I would have been first in line when teams were trying to give Okafor & Chandler away. I would have been on the phone when players like Thabolosha, Brewer, Tony Allen, Deng, & Lowry were available. This model would have had scoring issues to address along the way admittedly, but I would have built on the strengths of the teams best player instead of using them to prop up a finesse team. Point, I don't think this team needed Tayshuan, Rip, & Billups clones, they just needed a Dalyesque commitment to defense & athleticism at every position...scoring to come. Would this team be setting defensive records instead of 3 points records? Would Charlotte w/Dwight be better than Pheonix with Dwight?

 

What if basketballs were square? It's irrelevant outside the fact this current line appears to have exhausted it's potential.

[MP_20 2]

Good job Gortat. He has been nailing those short baseline J's and looks to be having a lot of fun.

 

All this talk about what was missing vs the Celtics is quite hilarious. It sounds exactly like the Cavs the year after the Magic bounced them. They made their "adjustments" and never saw them in the playoffs. Last year....was last year. The team has to have an identity then continue to make themselves better at that instead of conforming based on 1 playoff series.

[ChiefWiggum 1]

What!? Gortat had tons of value!! We are currently lacking exactly what he gave us. He was a competitive big man on both sides of the floor who knew how to play the role he was in.

[BMP 424]

What!? Gortat had tons of value!! We are currently lacking exactly what he gave us. He was a competitive big man on both sides of the floor who knew how to play the role he was in.

 

We're lacking a competitive big man on both sides of the floor? Really?